Go Where the Buffalo Are

<cite>Jim McDannald, DPM:</cite>
<time>00:51</time>
<p>You're listening to Podiatry Marketing, conversations on building a successful podiatry practice with Tyson Franklin and Jim McDannald.</p>
<cite>Jim McDannald, DPM:</cite>
<time>01:00</time>
<p>Welcome back to Podiatry Marketing. I'm your host, Jim McDannald. Joined as always my trusty co host, Tyson Franklin. Tyson, how are doing today?</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>01:06</time>
<p>Oh, I'm fantastic today, Jim. As you said that then you said, I'm the host. I'm thinking, hang on. You're leaving me out of this one. But no.</p>
<cite>Jim McDannald, DPM:</cite>
<time>01:14</time>
<p>This is my show.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>01:16</time>
<p>This is my show. You're not welcome. You actually you have done one by yourself. It was about two years ago. There was a clash of times where we we couldn't get together.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>01:25</time>
<p>I said, just just record it yourself. But I don't think you had as much fun.</p>
<cite>Jim McDannald, DPM:</cite>
<time>01:28</time>
<p>No. It definitely wasn't as much fun. Just me staring at the camera and talking for fifteen or twenty minutes.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>01:34</time>
<p>So. Yeah. Well, I've done some solo ones on Podiatry Legends, and I actually don't mind doing them. Some I've been forced to do through for, yeah, one thing or another happens in my life. But sometimes, I actually do do enjoy doing it because you yeah.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>01:49</time>
<p>Just I think it's the time like, even though when we're doing each of these episodes, you will come up with your topic. I come up with my topic. And we sort of we work separately, and then we sort of bring them together. So I like that thought process of putting it together.</p>
<cite>Jim McDannald, DPM:</cite>
<time>02:03</time>
<p>No. Absolutely. Absolutely. I think it's yeah. It's just a nice combination of things.</p>
<cite>Jim McDannald, DPM:</cite>
<time>02:07</time>
<p>And get getting your perspective is always helpful for me to see things a little bit of a different way.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>02:12</time>
<p>Okay. So let's dive into today's topic, which is go where the buffalo are. And this saying was mentioned by one of my guests actually on Podiatry Legends, Jonathan Shearer. It was just in passing. We were talking about something and he'd go with go you gotta go where the buffalo are.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>02:29</time>
<p>And he did mention a little bit, but that saying stuck in my head, you know, for, like, weeks, you know, for a couple of months. It just stuck in my head. So I thought, need to investigate this a little bit further and figure out what this actually meant. So what the quote actually means, it's about positioning yourself where demand already is, not where you hope it might appear. So if you wanna think about it this way, think about the buffalo is the opportunity.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>02:53</time>
<p>What is it you're you're hoping is gonna happen? And the prairie is the market or the community that you're in. So you've gotta stop trying to create demand from scratch all the time, and a lot of podiatrists do that.</p>
<cite>Jim McDannald, DPM:</cite>
<time>03:06</time>
<p>Yeah. That could be a big mistake. I'll I'll have to say that when when I heard the the name of the title of this podcast, there's a like a grade school or elementary school song that we sing when you're growing up, at least in The United States where it's like home on the range.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>03:20</time>
<p>Oh, yeah. Home on</p>
<cite>Jim McDannald, DPM:</cite>
<time>03:21</time>
<p>range. Then it's a little plain like where the seldom has heard a discouraging word. Yeah. I don't know like that where the buffalo roam. Right?</p>
<cite>Jim McDannald, DPM:</cite>
<time>03:29</time>
<p>Like Yeah. I just that just cropped in my head when I saw that. But I think that's a great point. You need to go kinda go where the money's at or go where the buffalo are in order to accomplish things. You don't have to know, you just like you said, start from scratch every single time.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>03:41</time>
<p>Yeah. So a lot of podiatrists, they will try and educate people who don't really care about what it is they're trying to talk about. Yeah. They might write they might start writing articles or doing videos on, you know, dry skin on toes. And who's searching for why do I have dry skin on my toes compared to if someone was searching for heel pain?</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>04:00</time>
<p>Or they'll introduce a service that nobody is actually searching for, and they even do it in their own clinic sometimes. They'll I've had people tell me, oh, I'm thinking of buying a a shockwave machine. Okay. Great. A lot of people have got one.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>04:14</time>
<p>Very useful. I used to have two of them in our clinic. And they'll go, so but isn't your clinic 99.9% just routine for care? They go, yeah. And I go, so when are you gonna use the shockwave?</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>04:25</time>
<p>Oh, yeah. Yeah. I suppose. I said, and so have your patients been saying to you, hey. I've heard about the shockwave thing.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>04:31</time>
<p>Do you actually have one? And that's why you're getting it? They go, no. No one's ever spoken about it. I go, just keep doing what you're doing.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>04:39</time>
<p>There's no buffalo. There's no buffalo over there.</p>
<cite>Jim McDannald, DPM:</cite>
<time>04:42</time>
<p>No. Absolutely. Think you you had done a really important point there as far as like the communication between the patient, but also speaking on their language and understanding how they search for things. Right? I would say very few patients currently are aware of a thing like Shockwave.</p>
<cite>Jim McDannald, DPM:</cite>
<time>04:56</time>
<p>So Yeah. You're not gonna get people looking for those things in search or online. I mean, it looks good to have, you know, technologies in on the website and kind of showing them, but make sure that you're searching for things in a way that patients are looking for. It's it's a much more effective way of of getting more visibility quicker. You know, later on, maybe you could do things like advertising or shockwave specific things, but definitely speaking the patient language is that first important step.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>05:24</time>
<p>Yeah. Well, we used to do a lot of marketing around heel pain. We said, attention people with heel pain. We had this particular ad done up. We used in all these different places.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>05:32</time>
<p>Every time we ran it, it just killed it. We did so well from this particular ad. And then when we got our shockwave, I went, oh, let's put all our focus into shockwave at the moment. So we did that, and all I did for the next six or six or eight weeks is just watch the numbers of new patients drop. So we were we were promoting it, and and there were people coming in for it.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>05:54</time>
<p>But in comparison to the heel pain that people were out there constantly searching for, it didn't didn't even compare. Now long term, as our patients got educated about Shopwave, it was more of an an internal tool that we could actually promote to our patients instead of something externally that we were promoting with. No one even knew what it was at the time. So, yeah, we had to had to just stick with, like, where the buffalo were. So let me say, your buffalo are already out there.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>06:21</time>
<p>Tradies who are on their feet all day, they are actively looking for solutions. You just need to basically be visible to them. There there are patients already googling heel pain. There'd be people right right now who are online googling why do I have heel pain. So that's what you should be targeting.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>06:38</time>
<p>Runners looking for injury solutions, or you might have a diabetic looking looking or needing foot care. You know, who who in my area looks after diabetic feet? This is what people are searching for, and they are your buffalo. They're they're already out there. There might be a lot of people already treating them.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>06:55</time>
<p>You need to get into that onto that prairie as well.</p>
<cite>Jim McDannald, DPM:</cite>
<time>06:59</time>
<p>I think the internal marketing piece is is pretty right on as far as like for something called like shockwave for example. Right? I mean, think you and I are kind of like immune to what that sounds like, but someone that doesn't have any experience, you know, like shockwave therapy can sound like a like a like a medieval torture device. Right? It doesn't doesn't actually sound like the like the smoothest or most calm form of treating heel pain.</p>
<cite>Jim McDannald, DPM:</cite>
<time>07:23</time>
<p>So there has to be some education both of the patients that you do it on. Then once they understand it, can maybe pass along that word to you know, some of their cohorts or some of their network of people. But like I said, like you said, there has to be some level of education associated with some of these different modalities. Otherwise, you know, it can be a little bit lost on patients.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>07:41</time>
<p>Yeah. Well, I when I do my some of my marketing workshops, it's shockwave is one of the examples I use. Okay. When you say shockwave, you see this. And it has this photo of the patient with big smile on the face and the podiatry said with the shockwave gun on the foot, and they're both smiling like they're having a fantastic time.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>07:58</time>
<p>I said, that's what you see, what the patient sees. And then I flash up a photo of Jack Nicholson with the with the rubber bite in his mouth getting the electrodes put on his brain and one flew over the cookie's nest. I said, that's what they see. I said, so it is something that you I think shock wave and even, yeah, laser therapy and those type of things. I don't think there's a lot of patients that are out there searching for that.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>08:19</time>
<p>That is something internally. You go for the people who got heel pain and then you introduce those modalities to them. That's a smarter way of doing it anyway.</p>
<cite>Jim McDannald, DPM:</cite>
<time>08:28</time>
<p>I agree.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>08:29</time>
<p>Yeah. So and the thing with this is they're actually these type of patients block yeah. For example, pickleball players hobbling off court and they're looking for solutions, they're not hiding. They're actually they're they're grazing in plain sight. They are actually out there searching and eating.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>08:47</time>
<p>They're looking. You've you've got to learn to tap into them. And marketing isn't just about shouting louder. It's about standing in the right place and and having the the right message. Advertising running injuries at a nursing home is not gonna work, case people are wondering.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>09:06</time>
<p>I've I've had I've had coaching clients in the past, not recent, way, way back. And I'd say, what type of clinic do want? They'd tell me, and I go, so where are you currently marketing? And they would tell me where they're marketing, And they were doing things like advertising running injuries like in the nursing home monthly newsletter. And I go, do you get money from that?</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>09:26</time>
<p>They go, no. No, we don't. I'm going, okay. That should be telling you something.</p>
<cite>Jim McDannald, DPM:</cite>
<time>09:31</time>
<p>That's like we talked about in the past. It's like, you know, online you wanna build your website to really showcase all the things you wanna take care of. Right? Like the the things that are your highest priority and building the the best most relevant pages for those people on your website. The same thing goes off in the real world as well.</p>
<cite>Jim McDannald, DPM:</cite>
<time>09:47</time>
<p>You know, getting in front of your ideal audience. Maybe they're going to running shoe stores, to physiotherapists, or, you know, like nutrition stores or something. But how do you get in front of that right patient multiple times with relevant content? I think you hit the nail on the head there. You know, if you're providing great content to the wrong audience, it it's a waste of time.</p>
<cite>Jim McDannald, DPM:</cite>
<time>10:07</time>
<p>So you have to make sure your message and the audience that they're it's the right one for for each of those folks.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>10:13</time>
<p>Yeah. And there there's a what we call the the hidden herd. And these are the patients that are undecided. They haven't made a decision yet. So some of your best buffalo could be your existing patients who haven't actually committed.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>10:26</time>
<p>They they didn't say no. When you explained whether it was shockwave, laser, orthotic therapy, some other type of treatment, might have been surgery for an ingrown toner. They didn't say no. They didn't turn and go, no. Sorry, Jim.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>10:39</time>
<p>I don't wanna do that. All it is is just the treatment at some point stalled that they didn't make a decision, and therefore, yeah, life may have gotten away, and they actually meant to call you. So you need to follow-up those people. You need to round up that herd. And they are that's what I I class as incomplete treatment.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>10:59</time>
<p>To me, when you have a patient come in with a problem, you explain something to them, there has to be a final result. And if the result is them saying no, then that's fine. Then the treatment is complete. But if if they have not said no, then therefore, it is still ongoing, and you should be trying to follow-up these people. And if you're not following them up, you're you've got these these buffalo just walking straight past you, and you aren't trying to actually herd them all back in together.</p>
<cite>Jim McDannald, DPM:</cite>
<time>11:26</time>
<p>Sometimes when people stall out, right, it's just maybe they got busy that day or that week. Yeah. You know, people get busy in life. So it's important to have some component of being, you know, being aware to your patients, right, whether that be through an email newsletter, maybe you're doing awareness advertising. There's ways to let people know that you exist.</p>
<cite>Jim McDannald, DPM:</cite>
<time>11:42</time>
<p>And then, you know, how can you educate them, you know, even in the clinic or outside the clinic so they continue to build trust in you and the type of care you provide. So sometimes that's a a you know, building up your reviews or sometimes having testimonials or writing a blog post, or doing a video on a topic that's maybe relevant to type of modalities you work with. What are those ways for you to continue to build up trust? And once they have enough trust in you, maybe it's the first or second or third time that they come in contact with you. They or maybe someone recommends recommends you or mentions you.</p>
<cite>Jim McDannald, DPM:</cite>
<time>12:15</time>
<p>Maybe that just kinda puts them over the edge. So Mhmm. You know, it's not just, you know, person sees you one time and then they're a patient for life. Sometimes it takes a while to win people over a little bit and to let them see that you are that local expert.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>12:27</time>
<p>Yeah. I couldn't agree more. And the the next thing I wanna talk about when it comes to the Buffalo though, is not all Buffalo are equal. So you will have some patients, they're they're high value, they're compliant, they refer their friends, family, work colleagues, and you have others that just drain your time, drain all your energy. So it's important to choose your herd wisely.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>12:48</time>
<p>Not not every herd is used. So most podiatrists aren't struggling because there's no buffalo. They're struggling because they're standing in the wrong paddock. And they're they're perfect example. In Australia, we have this patient care plans, and it's partly it's sort of related with the government.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>13:04</time>
<p>And there's still podiatrists today, even with how costs are going through the roof, just life in general and running a business, who still bulk bill certain patients. And they are so reliant on these certain medicals, it's referring all these bulk billing patients to them. And they go, oh, but I can't put the fees up because the patients will complain. And, like, if if you are not living the lifestyle you want because of what you're charging, then you're in the wrong paddock, and you're dealing with the wrong herd. You need to slowly move out of that paddock and let somebody else take them over or start charging what you're worth.</p>
<cite>Jim McDannald, DPM:</cite>
<time>13:40</time>
<p>No. I couldn't agree more. I was recently at a conference and was talking to a husband and wife team that basically their entire clinic now is treating nail fungus. That's all they do like every single day. They they niche down.</p>
<cite>Jim McDannald, DPM:</cite>
<time>13:53</time>
<p>And by niching down and getting rid of the the types of patients or the the types of buffalo that they didn't want anymore, They were able to kinda really be be seen not only as that local expert, but the regional expert in treating toenail fungus. So just it's amazing some of these stories I hear from people that choose the niche down. So it's that's a great way to to get in front of the right type of buffalo, I guess.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>14:16</time>
<p>Yeah. But it is one of those things that, like, I I totally understand. When I set up my first podiatry clinic, I would see anybody. I didn't care who came to the door. I had rent to pay.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>14:27</time>
<p>I had lights they had to keep on, phone bills, and staff. You just so I totally get when people are starting, they are desperate. They wanna see everybody they can. But as you get better as a podiatrist and as your business improves, you slowly let those people go. You you concentrate on the herd that's gonna give you the or the buffalo that's going to give you the best best bang for your buck for the for the time and effort you put in, you should be getting paid for it.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>14:55</time>
<p>Which leads on the next thing I wanted to talk about was your services should also match the herd. So if you want more runners, then talk more about running injuries. They're they're the things you wanna run about. If you want more diabetic patients, then you need to talk about diabetic care and and education on your website. And because those buffalo, that's what they're actually searching for.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>15:17</time>
<p>And and if that's what you want more of, you must be talking about that type of thing.</p>
<cite>Jim McDannald, DPM:</cite>
<time>15:21</time>
<p>Yeah. I couldn't agree more. It's just that we've talked about in the past. If have a niche or have a certain interest, like, really, you know, get in front of those people, whether it be online or offline. Find those ways to create relevant messages for them and help educate them so they can feel empowered to to see that you can help them in ways that are directly relevant to the care they need.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>15:41</time>
<p>Yeah. And also, find out where where in the past, where have your best buffalo come from? When you really think about the patients you've had, you you go through in your work, who your best patients were or or group of patients, really think about where are they coming from and then double down into that. Stop just trying to chase that that new shiny thing. And that's exactly what I did when I was talking earlier about we had a heel pain ad, and then all of a sudden, we got a shock wave, and I said, oh, we should be promoting that.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>16:09</time>
<p>And that that was a a six to eight week mistake. It cost me actually a lot of money. And I also remember, I had a we had this other ad running. I remember our sales rep coming up to you one day and saying, hey, Tyson. When are you gonna change your advertising?</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>16:23</time>
<p>It is so boring. You've been using the same ad now for, two years. And I said, I'll change it when it stops working. So a lot of times, we we change things or we do certain things because we get bored with it. We think, oh, if we're bored, everyone must be bored.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>16:37</time>
<p>You don't realize these people have just never seen what you've done before. So for them, it's the first time. There'll be people that this is the first episode they'll listen to. And they're be thinking, why are we talking about Buffalo? But there's another couple 100 episodes I can follow through</p>
<cite>Jim McDannald, DPM:</cite>
<time>16:53</time>
<p>But I think the the point that I really relate to there is the digging into who your ideal patients are. Right? So maybe it's you got them from a certain ad. Maybe it's certain demographics that you can look up. You know?</p>
<cite>Jim McDannald, DPM:</cite>
<time>17:04</time>
<p>Well, you know, there's a certain group or cohort of patients where you can really look at those things. Maybe it's, you know, it's it's it's there a referral pattern that makes sense from a certain physician or from a certain group. So digging into those ideal patients and understanding, you know, who like, where do they go, you know, what kind of activities they do, like, what other people are getting in front of them, and that makes going after those folks and providing great care to them much much easier.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>17:29</time>
<p>You know, it's like you said, you will have a couple of if you look in your particular community, there might be a 100 general practitioners. And you'll find you could contact all all 100, every one of them. You could have a meeting with every one of them. And even still, only a certain percentage of people will refer to you. And out of that, the ones that refer you, be some that just refer constantly refer duds, and there'll be other ones that refer really good quality patients.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>17:56</time>
<p>When you identify those people, it's the same that you double down on those referral sources. Think what else can I do? How else can I work with this person? Because the buffalo they're sending me are the buffalo I want. That's that's the paddock I'm trying to build to get as many of them as I can.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>18:11</time>
<p>So what else can I do to be working closer with these people? So the the evidence is out there. But if you've been successful in certain areas, there will be clues that have been left behind. You need to just identify those clues and and dig into it a little bit more.</p>
<cite>Jim McDannald, DPM:</cite>
<time>18:24</time>
<p>Yeah. One clear example, I'll jump in real quick on this, is that I've talked to some people that are in direct care or cash based services in The US, and probably the biggest source of referrals for them are basically primary care doctors or family doctors that are on a subscription or, you know, a direct care model as well. You get five or six of those, you know, direct care family physicians or primary care physicians that are feeding you patients to your clinic, you know, that's a perfect example of getting in front of that most relevant or that kind of right fit patient. So I think that's definitely there's different ways of looking at that. Also, the the fungal nail folks also gave me an idea that they basically told me that dermatologists are their bigger biggest source of referrals.</p>
<cite>Jim McDannald, DPM:</cite>
<time>19:06</time>
<p>Okay. Because dermatologists, once they see the toenail fungus, they don't wanna deal with it. They send it directly to them.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>19:12</time>
<p>So Yeah. And that's what I mean. There there will be certain physicians or primary care doctors, depending on what country you're in, that you can really tap into them. We used to when we had the when we had the clinic here, we had a couple of orthopedic surgeons that I actually had a really good relationship with. And as soon as somebody came in with any sort of foot problem, if they'd done some foot surgery, they'd refer them on to us.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>19:34</time>
<p>And and then they eventually moved town. The new orthopedic surgeons weren't as good. So it it just changed a lot. But the last thing I just wanna talk they'll mention is if you feel like you're struggling, check your paddock. Just just have a look at it's probably not a skill problem.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>19:48</time>
<p>It's probably just a positioning problem. You might be just you you're trying to go or you're standing in an area where there are no buffalo. So try and find out who are the patients you really want, where are they, and put yourself in a position for those people that actually find you. Because they're looking. They just gotta find you.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>20:06</time>
<p>You just gotta make sure that you're talking their language and making sure you're putting information there that that they are actually searching for.</p>
<cite>Jim McDannald, DPM:</cite>
<time>20:13</time>
<p>I couldn't agree more. That's the best way to you know, really be targeted about who you're going after, and it helps really position you in a lot of different ways as far as both the actions you should take both online and offline. So yeah, I'm I'm totally in agreement there.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>20:28</time>
<p>Okay. Well, that's all I had to say on this. Jim, it'd be fantastic if would use the rawhide music at the end of this.</p>
<cite>Jim McDannald, DPM:</cite>
<time>20:32</time>
<p>Maybe you can find some the buffalo. I don't know if it's under, you know, I don't think there's a like registered trademark for the where the deer and the antelope loan or the buffalo, you know, I don't know. Like a buffalo song would definitely be good. Maybe some Bob Marley.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>20:46</time>
<p>Well, it's it's funny that you oh, Buffalo Soldier. Yeah. But it's funny when you mentioned that song at the beginning, yeah, with Buffalo Roam. Home on the Range is the song, I think it is. But even though we don't have buffalo in Australia, and but we all know this song because we just grown up watching, yeah, watching American TV, so we know it all.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>21:07</time>
<p>There</p>
<cite>Jim McDannald, DPM:</cite>
<time>21:08</time>
<p>you go.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>21:09</time>
<p>Okay, Big Jim. That is all I wanna talk about with buffalo this week. Next week, I bring another animal. I don't know. It's you gotta stay tuned.</p>
<cite>Jim McDannald, DPM:</cite>
<time>21:16</time>
<p>Sounds like a plan, Tyson.</p>
<cite>Tyson E. Franklin:</cite>
<time>21:18</time>
<p>Okay. See you next week. Bye. Bye</p>
<cite>Jim McDannald, DPM:</cite>
<time>21:25</time>
<p>Subscribe and learn more at Podiatry Marketing. That's the website address, podiatry.marketing.</p>