Ask Better Questions, Grow Your Practice

You're listening to Podiatry Marketing, conversations on building a successful podiatry practice with Tyson Franklin and Jim McDannald.

Hi. I'm Tyson Franklin, and welcome to this week's episode of the Podiatry Marketing Podcast. With me, as he is every week, it's trusty and reliable, Big Jim Mac. How are doing today, Jim?

Getting bigger by the week. You know, I've a few weeks ago, I turned 49, so bigger numbers means a bigger brain and better and bigger answers and and information here on the Podiatry Marketing Podcast, I guess.

Oh, I'd love to be 49 again. I recently turned 60. But my dad always told me, you're only as old as a woman you feel. So Oh, boy. That was just something he always said, because my mom was eleven years younger than him.

It was There

you go.

Quite funny. Yeah. So my wife is only 53. I I only feel 53. Nice.

There you

go. My wife's three years younger than me, so yeah. Not quite that gap, but a little bit younger.

Yeah. My. So how you been anyway?

Things are good. Things are good here in Montreal. Just hot hot summer that before all the you know, they they say in Montreal, there's two seasons. There's winter in construction, so I guess we're in the midst of construction season. But otherwise, yeah, things are good.

Hey. I've heard in the, like, UK and through Europe, they were getting smashed with really hot weather for a while. Did you cop it there as well, or it it you didn't have the problem?

Yeah. I mean, we kinda sometimes go into the low to mid thirties sometimes with humidity, but it hasn't been so bad here yet this year. So, you know, knock on knock on wood the rest of the summer is doesn't go into the high thirties or forties in Celsius, which is, you know, nineties and what you know, close to 100 here. But usually, it's it's not so bad.

The hotter the better, I say.

I like it hot.

Yeah. That's a movie as well. What are we talking about today?

Yeah. So today's kind of conversations centers around kind of asking better questions to grow people's practice. So most podiatrists think, you know, marketing happens online. You know, that's what I do is stuff online, but a lot of it's gonna happen. We've talked about this in the past as well, is that a lot of it happens in the exam room, and it's really dependent on the questions you're asking.

So, you know, patients decide whether to trust you in a few minutes. The doctor asked, you know, one more question stands out from the ones who kind of rushed to fix a problem. So that's kind of what we're gonna dive into today.

Yeah. That's good. So it's because I do know and you hear you hear people talk about it sometimes that I had an appointment somewhere, and I was just pushed through. I felt like a number. Didn't they didn't treat me like I was actually a real person.

I don't know if they were listening, and they may have been. But I don't think if the if the patients aren't feeling it, then you're obviously doing something wrong.

Yeah. So we're gonna go over five examples of that like you're talking about. And the first being is that, you know, trust that the trust problem is hiding kind of in plain sight. You know, your patients are not leaving or or or not appointing with you because not because of your clinical skills. Some of them are, you know, not appointing or leaving because they didn't feel heard.

You know, a quiet patient in your chair is not a is not a necessarily a happy patient. Most of the time, silence means they kinda checked out three minutes ago. Yeah. There's a good book that I recently read called Give to Grow that puts it that kinda puts it simply. You know, people hate to be sold to, but they love to buy.

So the same is true for providing health care. Patient resists your plan that you kind of push on them. They're gonna commit to a plan that they've kind of feel ownership and kind of help build out. And you can kind of help guide them down that path. Right?

They're not just choosing their own care, but they wanna be a part of it. And it starts with kind of one thing that a lot of people just tend to skip.

That is so true about people don't want to be sold to, but they do like to buy. And we perfect example. Not so long ago, were in Port Douglas, which is north of Cairns. And I was looking for a shirt, not the fabulous one I'm wearing today, but I was looking for a shirt for my sixtieth birthday bash. I thought, I want something that's very unique, so I remember I got that from my sixtieth.

We walked in the shirt shop. It had a lot of nice clothing there, and I was in buying mode. I wanted to buy a shirt. But the guy who was in the shop who obviously owned the shop, he was in sales mode. And even when he first walked out, he said, I won't harass you.

Just very quickly, I'll tell you this, this, and this. Not a problem. Bugger off. He leaves. Within fifteen seconds, he's back again.

Oh, and also and yeah. Okay. That's great. Go. And then he came back again.

He came back a fourth time, and I'm looking at like, I can't get out of here fast enough. So we we left, and I bought something somewhere else. But he actually had some really good gear there, but he was so hell bent on selling. And I was so hell bent on buying, but it put me off. So I can see patients feeling exactly the same from podiatrists.

Absolutely. I think it kinda comes down to, like we talked about, people wanna be heard. They wanna feel like the person is listening to, know, the doctor is listening to them. And if they're if they're feeling like they're being treated, like, as the diagnoses or just as kind of that, oh, you're a heel pain patient, oh, you're a diabetic patient, and people will just skip to the diagnosis without listening and trying to understand the situation, that's when people turn off. Right?

They don't feel heard, and they feel just like kind of treated like an object in a way. And they're just, you know, you're and if you're not spending time with them or kind of getting to know them in a way that they wanna express themselves, they're not gonna be happy, and that's gonna turn into negative things like negative reviews. Mhmm. It's gonna turn into maybe positive negative treatment outcomes because you didn't take the time to listen to they had either an allergy or they had something else going on in their life that could maybe cause a complication. So it's really important that, you know, in order to to to deliver the best possible care, that we're asking good questions and taking the time to listen.

Yeah. And I think I think they're asking the good questions too. Recent appointment I had with the GP, they put me on some medication. Okay. I was about to take it, then I realized, hang on.

I'm taking something else. They never asked me if I'm what else am I on? So my daughter, luckily, is a pharmacist. I said, do these two things work? Yes.

She went, oh, no. No. No. Don't do that. She said, didn't the doctor ask you?

No. So there was a failure in asking questions. So I can see here, not asking questions, patient feel like maybe they should have asked more, but how a negative review could actually come out of that.

Not only negative review, but like you're losing opportunities to provide great care to a patient. Maybe they initially came with a in with a heel pain on one foot, and they have something else going on the other foot, and you just didn't take the time to listen. You just jumped in and said, oh, you got plantar fasciitis. Here's your brace. Here's your at home protocol.

Here's your orthotics. And you weren't really listening to it. They have ingrown toenail on the other side, or they have an open wound or something. You just were just so into like treating that one thing that you're kind of close yourself off to providing the best possible care.

It makes total sense. What's the next thing? You said there was five. We do we're going over five?

Yeah. We're gonna go with five here. And the next is the next is from a you know, kind of a sequence in a movie that I I think is a pretty funny movie. Maybe you've seen it. Tyson's called The Four The 40 Year Old Virgin.

Who has not witnessed the 40 year old version? And you probably you may already know this. Yeah. When he was getting his his chest waxed, that was actually done for real. So when he's yelling and screaming, all the words he's yelling at were was actually real.

There was no acting in that. There was actually what happens when you wax your chest, which is why I would never wax mine.

I have no plans of doing that. We're not we're not gonna be talking about the the chest waxing sequence, but there's a sequence in the movie where Andy, who's the main character, he goes into a bookstore, and he asked the employee of the bookstore basically, she asked some some questions, but then he kinda turns the focus on her and basically asked her the same questions back to her. Like, you know and it was just kind of a sequence that, you know, they traded names and, like, you know, there was some conversation about, you know, she asked him, like, do you like to do it yourself? And then he asked her the exact same question back. It's it's pretty funny and maybe, you know, a little PG 13 rated R, but it's the most important thing about it is though, during this interaction, he stayed curious.

Right? He was curious about who she was. He was asking her questions even when she tried to make it about him. He kinda kept the spotlight on her and what, you know, what she wanted. So the lesson here is that when you're in exam room, you don't have to be maybe creepy a little bit like Andy there, but and you don't need to be that polished.

You just need to be interested. So Yeah. Do you you don't have to ask the perfect question. You know, sometimes you can rephrase a question that in a way that the patient gave you some information, you can rephrase it in a way that these kind of follow-up questions are almost, you know, are more important maybe than the initial question you asked. So the doctor who asks and listens, you know, builds more trust than the doctor who lectures.

So curiosity does the heavy lifting, you know, even if it's a little bit clumsy at times.

You know, Dave Freeze, I've mentioned on this podcast, and people who have followed me know that I'm a fan of Dave Freeze. But he always says when you ask a patient a question, usually, answer they give you the first answer they give you is a lie. Not that not that they're totally lying to you, but it's not the whole truth. If you're asking me why you're here, they might tell you something, which is why you need to listen to what they say. Don't jump to a conclusion and ask more questions because the more questions you ask and the more feedback you get from them, then you'll actually get to the true reason why they're in your clinic in the first place.

And that is all about that listening and communicating, and sometimes repeating back what they've said to you to make sure that they that you've actually heard it the right way.

No. Absolutely. I think that initial question you asked them is kinda like it's usually pretty broad in general. Right? So you're generally gonna get you're gonna get a general answer back from that that's not super specific or like you said, it might be a lie, but it might be just be so nonspecific you don't understand.

But if you can understand what they're communicating to you either through verbal or nonverbal cues and then nail you know, kinda narrow it down a little bit and see if you're in the right area to kind of walk down a kind of a path of questions that helps the, you know, them feel understood, but you also get the information you need to make the right diagnosis and make the right treatment. But you're you're listening to them, and it's kind of like it's not just, you know, you know, it's it's more like a tennis match. It's back and forth. Right? It's not just a golf match or just hitting it and walking and and moving stuff.

It's it's back and forth between you and the patient to make sure you're nailing down exactly what's going on there for them. So like I said, you don't have to be smooth. You just need to be interested and just curious about the patient and their needs, and that will shine through in these types of interactions.

Yeah. I think definitely staying curious. And like I said, sometimes a podiatrist can, they'll ask one or two questions and they they get the answer they want because that's what they think all they need. Okay. I know what to do next.

So it reminds me, you have the thing where the kid goes to his dad and asks his dad a question about something, and the dad says, oh, I'm not quite sure. Why don't you ask your mother? And the kid says, I don't need to know that much about it. So he's gonna get a lot more information. And sometimes I feel like podiatrists are like that kid where they they just just give me the superficial answers because now I'll run with that instead of, hang on, maybe if you talk ask more questions, you're gonna get deeper responses.

And therefore, you actually have to think a little bit more too. Think outside of the box that you may have been putting yourself in or putting that patient in.

Absolutely. You just get more engaged in the conversation and more involved in their care, and that's noticeable to the patient. Know, there people are used to like getting two or three questions from a doctor, a prescription, and then they leave the room, and then the medical assistant comes in, and they're like, oh, like this it's over? Like, I'm I'm done? Like, there was, you know, there was not that kind of like a slight the bond that was built and the trust that was gained by having something doesn't have to be a long drawn out thing, but just something that's deeper that makes them feel like they were heard.

Yeah. I'm going to send you a video when we get off this off this podcast. It's a little video snippet from Ted Lasso just talking about cure do you remember Ted Lasso?

Absolutely. Yeah. I'm a big big

Ted Lasso best shows ever. I'm gonna send you a video when I get off here. Just this little snippet. We can edit this part out

if want. Sounds good.

But it's No.

It's all good.

It's all about curiosity. It is absolutely fantastic. Send it to my wife, whom she thought was great. What's what's what's the next one?

So the next one is I I read a book recently called Give to Grow, and there's some some kind of concepts that apply to patient conversation. So, you know, there's a simple idea from the book, Give to Grow. In any conversation, you know, different patients need different things, right? And usually patients need one of three things from you. One, they need kind of your technicalmedical advice.

They need emotional support, or they need to like kind of a strategic idea about how to approach this problem. So, you know, one good follow-up question tells you which one your patient needs right now. You know, you can try these in clinic, you know, asking like, how is it affecting your day to day? You know, what have you already tried? You know, what worries you most about this?

The author found that for someone that shared you know, the more someone shares with you, the more they want to work with you. So one extra question is not small talk or a waste of your time. It's really about how trust gets built in the room, you know, for free in a way. It's like free marketing because people are trusting you, and you're more likely to to get other patients in the future.

Yep. What I what I love about this episode so far is this is a marketing podcast. And some people might be listening to this go, what's this got to do with marketing? This has got everything to do with marketing. Because it's all about marketing is all about yeah.

Like communicating with patients. And what I think is these questions that you're asking like I said, sometimes it might feel a bit clumsy when you're asking more questions than you normally would. And if it feels a little bit uncomfortable, I think that's a good thing because it means you're trying something a little bit different. But I think the more you do this, the better you're gonna get.

Yeah. It's like, it's kind of the core move. It's really simple. Right? You just you wanna be seen as a giving person.

Right? You you wanna give first by kinda giving attention, you know, giving curiosity to the patient and giving kind of a genuine read on what the patient actually needs. And when you can do that, the rest of the interaction is gonna be, you know, you're gonna be on good terms with the patient. Sometimes people are concerned about that first impression of the patient, when you come in in a giving giving mood, patients see that and they they're really receptive to givers.

Yeah. And plus, if you're asking far more questions than anybody has ever asked them before about a specific problem, the connection they're gonna have with you, I think will be unbreakable.

Absolutely. And like you talked about, it's it's the depth of the the questions that are kind of the these questions that lead to a depth of a doctor patient relationship that, you know, the more someone shares with you, like I said, the more they're gonna wanna work with you. You know, one extra question kinda opens a door to, like, a better understanding of of who that patient is, what their problem is, and then how you can treat them with the best possible care.

So what was the name of the book again?

Give it's called where is that again? Sorry. Give to Grow. Give to Grow.

Okay. I've never read it. Give to Grow.

Yep. It's a it's a good one. It definitely it's it's kind of it's it's an interesting concept and it's but yeah. It's definitely helpful book.

Anything else on this before we get to the next point, which will be point number four?

Yeah. We'll head over to number four, which is this is kinda where curiosity becomes marketing. So like I said, curiosity is not just bedside manner. It's also marketing. You train your front desk to ask, you know, one follow-up question on every phone call.

Besides booking, you know, is there anything else you're unsure about? You know, that single question cuts down no shows and surprises. The same skill works with referring physicians. You know, ask what they need from you and then deliver it. It works online as well, know, replying to reviews like a human, you know, answering comments, you know, asking your your patients kind of you know, people, you know, your your audience, you know, on LinkedIn or other places of what they wanna learn.

This pattern holds true everywhere you look. So, you know, attention you give comes back as loyalty, reviews, and referrals. So the question is whether you're actually asking these questions and being open to the responses.

And then when you do get the response, I think dig a little bit deeper.

Sure.

Especially if you like I think if you ask a question, they give you a response. And in the back of your mind, you you feel there's another question there, then just ask it. I don't think a patient would ever complain. Jeez. I went to the went to the podiatrist today, and, goddess, he asked me a lot of questions about my problem.

Like, asked so many questions, and I was in there much longer than I thought I was gonna be, and he was so curious of my condition, and he's got so many ideas and suggestions on how to help me. No patient will ever complain about that. And that's marketing because that's where the word-of-mouth will come from.

No. Absolutely. That's it's a it's a level of caring and an excellent care that you can provide by by digging in deep to those things. So you definitely, like I said, it's not only is it, you know, is you in the the treatment room, but also your front desk, your referral sources, the way you interact with, you know, colleagues and people in other professions online. You know, these questions work in public as well as within the treatment room, so definitely something to consider.

So what is the what's what's number five?

Number five is the follow-up question flywheel. So most practices miss the math. Better questions create a better visit. A better visit earns reviews and referrals. Those bring in new patients who already trust you before they even walk in the door.

That's the flywheel a lot of people are trying to create in their product in the practice marketing, and it's the cheapest marketing you can have. It costs you one more question, not one more ad dollar. So, you know, watch your review volume after you kinda train this up. You know, watch your rebooking rate. A practice that lifts retention and referrals by, you know, even a few points changes its growth math, so without raising the budget at all.

So small and consistent wins here, and that's really the whole point of, you know, asking good questions.

Well, I tell you, if if you can get I think everybody knows if you've ever been to a business, thought about using a business, and somebody has said to you, you should 100% go there. They are absolutely fantastic. They are awesome at this, this, and this. Based on their own experience, when you walk in there, you're already sold. This person has already sold them to you.

They don't have to do as much work. But if they then also follow it up with the same questions and the same service, then you're gonna start raving about it as well. So it just it makes so much sense.

Yeah. It's like we talked about in maybe in a previous podcast about how do you get those kind of raving fans of your practice of you. Right? And this is that this is the how you do it. Right?

It's asking better questions that create a better patient experience. That patient experience turns into, you know, better kinda online reviews, word-of-mouth referrals, and then those reviews and referrals bring in the patients that already trust you. And just it just continues and continues. And the more velocity you can build in that kind of referral, that wheel, the flywheel, it just keeps on going and going. So, yeah, like it just takes it takes small steps, right, and consistency over time to make that happen.

And the best thing about that is that, you know, asking an additional question or two and digging in deep with a patient doesn't cost you additional, you know, marketing spend. As much as I think it's important people spend money on marketing.

Yeah.

Like this is something you can do in your clinic to help augment those things you're doing on in your paid channels for your website, for Google Business profile. You're just adding and making those things that you're paying for much more effective.

Well, yeah, not too long ago when I was a total invalid with my sidek and lower back problems. And I mentioned how I went to a GP and I walked in and watched what's wrong with it when I told him, pretty much just put these blinkers on, did not ask any more questions, did not dig any deeper, and just proceed to take a couple of notes, write a script, and throw me out the door. And he did nothing. So I've I've experienced places where they ask a lot of questions. I've experienced places where they don't ask many.

And I tell you, I know which places I go back to.

Yeah. It makes a huge difference.

So please pay attention to what Jim's saying. So do want do you want a rehash of the the five?

Yeah. I would just say one more point on this is that, you know, a small amount of, you know, improvement in retention or an increase in referrals, maybe it's 5% or 7% or 10%, that can have a significant, you know, impact on your, you know, annual revenue. Right? If you could increase your revenue by five to 10% just by asking better questions, that's some significant growth math. And this is not like I said, you don't have to raise your budgets, but there's compounding effects in these kind of that's kinda in the point of kind of give to grow.

You know, small consistent consistency gives you know, basically, you can build these relationships that are gonna maybe you won't see it in the next month or two months, but, you know, one, three, five years down the road by doing these things consistently, you know, you're gonna really create a monster of a practice that it's seeing the type of patients you wanna see and providing excellent care. So I think that's that's really really important.

Yeah. And no business is gonna lose business by asking too many questions.

No. Absolutely. And and like you said, like to kind of recap, you know, trust is built through questions questions not pitches. You know, like the the 40 year old version shows you, you know, it's all about curiosity that wins connection. Like I said, give to grow says, you know, always give first, you know you know, give your curiosity, give your attention to the patient, give helpful questions that kinda help nail down their their issues and provide them solutions.

You know, curiosity is not just for the treatment room. It shows up, you know, at the front desk in the treatment room, but also online. And better questions feed a flywheel of reviews and referrals. It's gonna not only benefit you and your practice, but benefit your local community by having you provide great care to them.

Okay. This is fantastic information.

Well, know, think it's it's important because like I think sometimes we get so stuck in, you know, we train. We we know how to treat things. We know how to do complex surgeries, do orthotics and these things, but that human to human connection is what really helps drive a business and drive trust that's gonna make you long term sustainable and and kind of have the type of practice you wanna have. So these are important discussions as much as it is to do a deep dive on TikTok or Google Ads or Google business profile.

Yeah. And it's one of these things where I had podiatry reach out to me recently because something I said on a podcast. And I think it was a podcast I did with Dave Freeze. And he went, they don't teach us soft skills. At university, we're we're taught biomechanics.

We're taught how to identify all these problems and we we get ticked off when we get our degree. But at those stage, they teach us the soft skills of how to communicate better with patients, how to ask better questions. These soft skills are the thing. These are things that set an average podiatrist or sets an above average podiatrist way ahead of an average podiatrist.

Yeah. I think it's tough these days. You know, you have especially in The United States, have these kind of MBA level CFOs and CEOs who are trying to squeeze as many patients into an office, know, thirty, forty, 50 patients a day sometimes that are, you know, trying to like make people see this many patients in it. And there's an opportunity in private practice to do it better, to be more patient centric and to give them the type of curiosity and attention that they need to to to receive great care, it's you know, to try to provide that best best patient care. So I think these are important skills that, you know, whether it's on the podcast here or learning in other ways, how to, you know, really connect to your patients and the people in your local area.

Super, super important.

Okay. Anything else you wanna say before we wrap up?

No. I would just say, you know, if you found this podcast helpful, if there's topics or ideas you have for future podcasts, you can always head over to podiatry.marketing. You can send us a message there, and we read everything we receive. If you have ideas or if you just wanna get an online practice scorecard sorry, a practice visibility scorecard to, you know, see where your clinic ranks in your local area. And then, you know, Tyson and I are available to to give you some advice and to help you down that right path to build the practice you're looking for.

So no, it's been great chatting with you today, Tyson, and I look forward to the next one.

Okay, big Jim. I look forward to again next week.

Alright, Tyson. Okay. See you. Bye now.

Thanks for listening to Podiatry Marketing with Tyson Franklin and Jim McAnnold. Subscribe and learn more at Podiatry Marketing. That's the website address, podiatry.marketing.