46 - Why Budget Marketing Services Don't Generate Profits

[00:00:00]

Introduction

Tyson E. Franklin: Welcome

back to this week's episode of Podiatry Marketing. With me is my partner in crime,

co

host, Big Jim McDannald.

Jim, how

Jim McDannald, DPM: Tyson. I'm doing fantastic. I'm ready to, to jump into some fun podiatry marketing topics today and see what, uh, what we put our heads together, what we can come up with. So

Tyson E. Franklin: I'm interested. What is today's

The Pitfalls of Budget Marketing Services

Jim McDannald, DPM: So today we're going to discuss why budget marketing services don't generate profits. I think, uh,

it's a topic that we've touched on a little bit here and there, but, you know, I think really important to understand what people get for their money when they invest in their marketing services.

Tyson E. Franklin: So were you going to call this Don't Be a tight ass, Is that um, yeah.

Jim McDannald, DPM: or we were in residency and we're, you know, high and mighty doctors, you know, in our scrubs, you know, scrubbing in for

cases, uh, marketing feels like, you know, another cost on the balance sheet. So, uh, I think as [00:01:00] people get into private practice, they realize

that's not the case, uh, at the same time,

Tyson E. Franklin: and I think people need to realize too, I think you get what you give. So podiatrists who really try to skimp on marketing or cut corners and try and do things on the cheap are the same people that usually

complain, oh, my patients are always after a discount.

And I think because your, I think your marketing really represents who you are.

So if you are, if you are handing out

a. A photocopied sheet of paper that's been photocopied four or five times because you haven't been bothered going back and getting it

redone properly or going back to the printer and printing something. I will just keep doing photocopies. To me, that reflects on your business.

So, if

you try to be cheap, you attract cheap. So where, where should

people, um, start? What sort of things should they

Jim McDannald, DPM: Yeah, I think it's first to kind

Tyson E. Franklin: can I jump in for a sec? Can I just jump in?

The Importance of Quality and Customization in Marketing

Tyson E. Franklin: When you said if, if you're in a town and there mightn't be another podiatrist for miles around you, I still think it's [00:02:00] really important to keep the level of standard. Yeah, because you don't know who's going to come into town eventually. And like when I moved to Cairns, there was one podiatrist here, three month, three month waiting period to get in to see, see somebody.

They see one of their podiatrists, I came in and just blew them away because they didn't do any

marketing. They said, our clinic is built on our good

reputation. Okay, well, mine's going to be built on marketing. And it was, I sold my clinic

six years ago. The people that have taken it over just took the marketing back down to bare bones marketing.

A

new guy has come into town and he's got three clinics in town now, eight podiatrists and is kicking their butt.

So to me, I think even if you don't have competitors, I always think you should still keep trying, keep your stand up. Therefore you're going to get better quality patients.

Jim McDannald, DPM: No, no, that's

okay. I think,

I think it's, it's like there's sometimes that,

uh,

when you're kind of out there [00:03:00] by yourself, you don't necessarily feel that, that push.

Right. I

think so you may not be getting

the, the people calling and that stuff, but, but definitely I think it is important to

have

some, you know, some level. I think that there is a level there that. Most podiatrists probably feel comfortable with. And when I

talked to some of my colleagues or,

you know,

future clients, the kind of the level

that I hear people talking about is usually

somewhere

along the lines of about 500 in

monthly budgeting services. And then

maybe a hundred dollars or 200 in like, uh, ad spend, whether it be Google ads or local ads.

So that's kind of, I would say it's like. What is presented as what people need. And, uh, when you, when you, when you go for that kind of like lower level and it may, it may seem like a lot when you're first getting started that, you know, 500 to 700, but really what you're going to be getting is like someone most likely that, you know, if it's a local provider, they may not know much about podiatry, right?

I just. You know, plain and simple, they may be doing, uh, the, uh, the card store or the, the local drug store down the street. They might be [00:04:00] trying to local restaurants. They may be a good local provider, but the amount of time and effort you're gonna have to coach them up on podiatry and understanding what a bunionectomy is or what

Tyson E. Franklin: Yeah. And that's the difference between when you're talking to somebody who knows what they're doing. So if somebody was wanting help with online services, talking with you, who If a podiatrist has done this for a number of other podiatrists, it's going to make so

much more sense. It's the same as if somebody,

I've

bumped into people and they've gone, Oh, I've been working with this, uh, marketing company.

They're not doing,

say, the online posting for them, but helping them work out a

strategic plan for their podiatry clinic. And I go, okay, I go, so how many podiatrists have they worked with in the past?

Oh, no, they've never worked with one. And you just go, so you have to spend so much time trying to educate them on what you do.

For And then, then they're going to do the marketing

when they can just come straight to someone like you or I, who are podiatrists, we know how to

Jim McDannald, DPM: Yeah, I [00:05:00] definitely agree with that.

Understanding the Value of Investment in Marketing

Jim McDannald, DPM: I think it is tough though. I think

sometimes those social ties or those like

friends of friends can sometimes find their way in there and it feels like a good thing in the moment. But like you said,

someone who has that

domain expertise is going to be able to.

You know,

this is something that we do all the time.

So obviously we have

a certain level of

insight in, uh, trial and error

on, you know, not necessarily trial and

error, but, you know, we've had the

experience of working with people, podiatrists in the

past. So we know those things that works and doesn't work. You don't have to Yeah. Yeah. Spend that extra time either coaching them up or, you know, experimenting and things that may or may not pan out, uh, to help build the practice.

So I think that's, that's the important, uh, kind of first thing. Uh, the second thing I would say that's important is that, you know, if you do move into more of a podiatry or healthcare marketing service for that 500 or 700 a month. You're not going to have local exclusivity of that marketing provider. Um, they just, they like, that's such a low price point for them.

They're going to try to get as many [00:06:00] people in that local area or that city as possible. And then that just sets up kind of a conflict of interest at that point of time where, you know, Unless you ask that question to them when you're sourcing your service provider, like you may not know, important to

Tyson E. Franklin: because that, I can understand that too, if you've got somebody who you're paying a lot more than 500, you might be paying a couple of grand too.

You want. that exclusivity in your area, but if you've

got a marketer,

a local marketer, and they're dealing with

five or six podiatrists who only want to pay minimum amount,

bare bones, sort of help, they need to have a number of them to actually make it worthwhile.

Plus, and I've seen it

where there will be podiatry clinics, and I can tell who they work with because everything that is posted for them, it's the same stuff. And it's, it's so obvious that it's come from the same

place, so they need to sort of

Jim McDannald, DPM: No, for sure. It's unfortunate there. I think

that

it is just like a. [00:07:00] It's important to have these kind of hard conversations

or ask these questions just so you know, you're getting yourself into, you know, if you choose to like

ignore that

they're working with the clinic down the street, or that's a possibility

that's up to you, but just realize that that is a possibility unless

you ask that question and kind

of have that due diligence about how that company or how that

person operates.

The Role of Trust and Strategy in Effective Marketing

Tyson E. Franklin: So what's next?

Jim McDannald, DPM: I think they should also be looking as far as, um, when

people are coming hard at them, uh, with like a low price or,

uh, you know, something that is maybe just volume of patients, maybe not the type of patients, or we're going to get you 30 new patients this month or 50 new patients this month, when that's kind of the hook, um, generally they're not really focused on you, um, and customizing your website to make sure that your online presence is something that It is long term value add and it kind

of gains momentum for you and for what you want to do in your practice, because a lot of

these folks will, um, or these agencies will sometimes make your website.

That's kind of [00:08:00] indistinguishable from any other clinic down the street,

Tyson E. Franklin: I've noticed a lot of those companies, it's more about churn and burn. They will make these claims, oh we'll get you 50 new patients next week. Here's John. John saw

200 new patients last month. I think, well, John must have been sitting

on his ass the month before for him to be able to fit

in 200 new patients.

So

they make all these big claims because I think

that they're also chasing the low hanging fruit. They're chasing the people that, Oh, I don't want to spend a

lot of money. So this guy says, could he can get me a 50 new patients next week And all I've got to do is this. And what normally happens is they'll take them on and they just churn

through them.

They burn them. And then they go for the next group of people that are just looking for, yeah, they're chasing low hanging fruit

Jim McDannald, DPM: No, for sure. And I think you kind of like touched on exactly that next point. And that's kind of most of these larger agencies that you'll see out there that are, you know, kind of like making very lucrative offers or cold calling

you or cold emailing

[00:09:00] you are generally in it

for the kind of the volume game. I would say like it's a volume play for, them to basically. Reach out to 5, 000 podiatrists. They know they're going to get two or 3 percent to kind of buy in and they just keep on pounding and keep on pounding on doors until people come with them. Um, they usually have a very templated website. It's a very kind of copy and paste model for the type of websites they'll create.

It'll be this like. Slideshow image on the homepage with like non specific imagery throughout the entire website, you know, with some decent pages, but just very generic content that doesn't separate you from anyone else. And what you'll find is that, um, you know, like I said, this will be something where they really focus on the volume.

Of customers, the number of clinics they work with and not the kind of in depth, quality customization piece, because I think that is something that separates someone that's doing more, I would say, boutique or someone's gonna work with five, 10 or 15 [00:10:00] practices in a very detailed in depth way versus, you know, a

Tyson E. Franklin: Well, I would expect it would cost a bit more. It's, it's, to me, it's no different. Do I, does your patient want a, does your patient want or just need a pre made orthotic off the shelf? And are you the, are you the clinic that's all you give out? You just pump out these pre made orthotics because you couldn't be bothered doing the hard work and.

Learning more about say custom made orthotics, not, and you're doing it purely because

you might be a bit lazy. And I think marketers can be

the same, but they're just pumping out pre made, pre made templates on what your clinic

needs without really finding out what does your clinic need. So going back to, I'm not bagging patients,

I'm not bagging podiatrists that use pre made orthotics.

Well, off the shelf orthotics.

but if the person walks in without you even really digging deep into what was their problem, whatever they come in with,

and do you have a solution, it's just like, oh, here, just use this pre made because it's easier. [00:11:00] And I think some marketing

Jim McDannald, DPM: Yeah. I mean, they have kind of a, sometimes they have kind

of a cookie cutter, um, you know, plant different types of plans or different components of a plan that they basically just try to

sell to everybody and without

any kind of true due diligence about. Who you are as a

practice, who you are as a

practitioner, you know,

what you're trying to get out of, you know, what brings you

joy in your practice. It takes some

time to kind of build that trust and that relationship

in order to really kind of like have long term success and long

term results.

Tyson E. Franklin: So, what else, what else should they be talking about or looking out for

Jim McDannald, DPM: Yeah, I think that the kind of the fifth point is kind of just be aware that there's kind of information asymmetry out there. And what I mean by that is that, um, there's sometimes like, like I mentioned, there's like tough questions or

hard conversations that, you know, if you are going to work with someone, they should bring up to you

in a straightforward manner.

I think the most important thing that I will sometimes

talk to my clients about is that, you know, if you're just going to like spend a hundred dollars [00:12:00] on Google ads, for example. You're always going to feel

like it doesn't work. And the reason that is, is that it has to have your, your ad spend or the type of marketing you're doing has to kind of get above the noise or above this certain level of threshold threshold before it really kind of hits and you're seeing that.

Momentum and that traction. And it's not, to spend thousands upon thousands of dollars, but you have to reach that certain threshold based on where you're practice, what you're wanting to go after. there's there's different kinds of, um, criteria to be aware of. Um, but sometimes people will just tell you what you want to hear.

Uh, you know, they just say. Oh yeah, we've had fantastic, fantastic success with my, this 500 plan with everybody we use or, you know, Oh yeah, don't worry about it. Like a hundred dollars or 200 of Google ads is just fine. That works for people, but there are these kinds of like levels of asymmetry where you have to know, I mean, Um, but I just know plantar fasciitis and how to treat patients and how to run a good office.

A lot of them do. Um, but these kind of [00:13:00] like small little details or these things, you don't know how Google ads work. So you don't know, like, why should you spend 500 instead of a hundred or a thousand instead of a hundred. You don't intuitively know those things because you're not working in this every day.

So that will sometimes, you know, that's sometimes a weak spot or a blind spot that, uh, clinic owners have, uh, because not only does Google kind of hide it in some ways, but sometimes people that utilize Google ads or. Uh, marketing services, know that you don't know those things.

Tyson E. Franklin: Yeah, I, I liked the part then you said about trust as well, because it is, I think sometimes when people are thinking about getting someone to help them with their marketing, trust is a big part of it. And they want to, Oh, if I only spend a small amount, maybe I'll build, I'll build trust up

with them and I'll spend more later. Whereas they're going, Oh, if

I spend too much, am I getting ripped

off? Because I don't, I don't trust this person yet. So

maybe, maybe they're coming into it

with the mindset of, I, I,

need to build trust, but. At [00:14:00] the same time, like, you're not going to get reports, like you might get a report from somebody.

If you're only spending 500 a month, the report they give you might be a really detailed report, but I don't think they're going to explain it too much.

Because they don't

have the time to, because you haven't paid for the explanation. You've just paid for the results, and then it's up to you to

Jim McDannald, DPM: No, I I completely agree with him that

that dovetails right topic and that is the, the kind of realizing that these lower cost providers are set up for kind of what I call the build and coast framework, meaning that, like you said, Tyson, uh, maybe they may provide you some amazing automated reporting, um, through a PDF that the email at the end of the month, but are they going to take the time to really.

Yeah, absolutely. Not only send you that report, but explain it to you in ways that you can understand and how it's, how it's benefiting your practice, uh, in a very straightforward way. I think it is one of those things that can be tough because, um, paying for people's time can be expensive, but if you're getting results from it and it's [00:15:00] really helping you customize.

Uh, your practice and the marketing approach you're taking to it that grows the practice in the direction you want to, it's definitely worth it.

Conclusion: Transforming Marketing from a Cost to an Investment

Jim McDannald, DPM: But in order to allow for time for this reporting and also for experimentation, right? Like we've talked about a lot of that in the past to give a marketer or marketing service provider the chance to say, Hey, I've analyzed some things.

I think we have an opportunity here. I think we should try. Maybe a Facebook, local Facebook campaign about plantar fasciitis or about ingrown toenails, it's worked pretty well with some of my previous clients, but we should experiment here. that conversation. So there is that continued building of relationship and it's not just a email report relationship because, um, once people sign though.

Once you're kind of like signed that year contract or two year contract, um, you're kind of locked in and a lot of marketing providers will know that. So if someone's trying to lock you in for a year or two years, there's a, there's a lock in factor and they the building

Tyson E. Franklin: yeah, I think you do have to be [00:16:00] wary of who you work with. It's, it's like anything, you've got to do your homework. You've got to talk to other people. Who have they worked with? Who have they been happy with? Have they got the results? And it's not just a pretty report that you get at the end of the month.

Because I talked to a lot of podiatrists, the amount they were telling me, Oh, no, no, I get a really detailed report and it tells me how many people went to this page and how many went to this and I go, okay, how many phone calls did you get that based on what it was you were trying to promote? That month or that quarter, and they go, Oh, I've got a lot of people going to my website now.

I'm going, well, how long are they staying there for? Is, are they staying there for a long period of time? Are they going to the page as you want, or are they just turning up and going, Oh, and then basically leaving again. So I think it's important to have those conversations. I've been doing these, um, like three hour brainstorming sessions with podiatrists.

And they book in three hours, they pay for the three hours. And we might spend the whole three hours.

just on who

is our ideal patient. And when we finish, and then that bases on what sort of [00:17:00] marketing they want to do, then they can go and run off and find, they can come and talk with you, Jim. They can talk with

their different marketing providers.

But the amount that have finished that and gone, Oh my God, I'm

looking at my marketing. I've been looking at my marketing wrong. No wonder it hasn't been working because they've gone straight to tactics without first

going to strategy. And I think that people that go cheap are going for cheap tactics, not a long term

Jim McDannald, DPM: I think it's also like,

I

think that's perfect example. I talked about there. I think it is. They do jump to this

tactic and strategy, but it also comes from a place where they feel like they have

to do it And they don't necessarily understand the benefits it can bring. Right.

So when you, when you kind of go for low cost or something like, Oh yes.

Like

I'm going to check off the box. Yes. I need a website. Yes. I need

maybe a Facebook page. Yes. I need a little bit of Google ads. Okay. I've done those things. I paid. You know, 500, 750 a month. I'm good. I can move on to the next thing. Cause I can understand that a lot of podiatrists don't, [00:18:00] you know, either they don't like this aspect of the practice.

Um, they're happy just to kind of like turn a blind eye to what's happening. But I think for as little as like, you know, a thousand, 2000, sometimes 3, 000 per month. Like exponential improvements can be made And if they understand that going into making, you know, having the discussions with service providers, that'll be a much better place, um, to understand what's really available out there, as opposed to just like, well, yep, I need, I need those three things. I checked them off the box and now it's time to move on to the next thing.

And I'll look at that contract next year when it's up. Um, if you're going to do that. You're really not going to get much benefit from it. It'll be, it'll continue to be a cost and it won't be an investment.

Tyson E. Franklin: Yep. I think that's a really good point. So

Jim McDannald, DPM: No, I think it's, I think you bring up some good, um, you've had some good questions there and some good feedback. I think, I think if people do have

questions or ideas, these are definitely things that Tyson and I love [00:19:00] to talk about. Uh, whether it's, you know, finding your ideal patient, uh, just kind of high level brainstorming.

Tyson E. Franklin: Yeah. No, it's fantastic, Jim.