Who Owns the Copyright of that Photo and Logo?

You're listening to podiatry marketing, conversations on building a successful podiatry practice with Tyson Franklin and Jim Mcdonald. Welcome back to podiatry marketing. I'm your host, Jim Mcdonald. Joined as always on my trusty co host, Tyson Franklin. Tyson, how's it going today?

I am fantastic today. Normal, Jim. I'm

Just a simple man. Just a simple man with a simple plan.

Yeah. That's it. No. I'm good. I've my trip to America is not too far away.

It's I can I can this I can see the light that I'm gonna be there soon, so I'm looking forward to it? But now over here in Kansat, Mowberry is good. It's hitting the back end of winter, so it's starting to warm up just a little bit more, which is I love the heat. Think that's why I enjoy Arizona. Well, I think that's why I enjoy Arizona so much is because it's just it's that dry heat.

There's no humidity. You can swim in the pool. But as long as you stay in the shade, then it's actually it doesn't matter how it could be 40 degrees. It's not hot in the shade.

Yeah. I I definitely miss the dry heat now that I'm back in Montreal here, so I I feel you there.

Okay. We're gonna dive into today's topic.

Yeah. Let's do it. What what are gonna chat about today?

This one is a beauty, and it's something that may not change everybody's lives. But it's something that if you stuff it up, it might change your life. And it's who owns the copyright of that photo that's been taken and that logo that you own or any particular artwork that you have had created, and it's something that people need to be aware of, that about the ownership of photos, the ownership of artwork, especially if it was done by a printer or or a graphic designer.

No. That's that's a great topic because it's like you said, you know, whether it's a logo or a photo, I think sometimes people don't realize that there's, you know, all kinds of trouble people can run into if you're not if you're copy pasting, you're doing a lot of stealing photos or doing things from other people's websites, there can be some serious implications of that kind of behavior.

Well, we mentioned it once before one of the episodes when I used audio on a podcast, but then I used that same audio in my YouTube channel. Just thinking I'd paid for that audio, but didn't realize I'd only paid for it for one channel. It didn't mean I had multi use of that. And this is where people can get unstuck. But what I'm gonna talk about first is photographs, and then I'll talk about the logo I'm printing afterwards.

So most people are unaware, and how this came about is I was talking to a coaching client about this. But most people are unaware that whoever takes the photo, whoever takes that photo, whether it makes that noise or not, is the copyright owner of the photo. So the person that takes the photo owns a photo even if it was taken with somebody else's camera. So I could grab your camera, Jim, and I could take a photograph. I can hand it back to you and go, goddamn, that's a good photo.

I technically own that photo. And if you then went and blew it up in a big print, and you went, my god, that's a good looking photo. People come in, that's a great photo. You go, hey, would you like a copy of it? Next thing, you sold thousands and thousands of that photo.

Technically, it's my photo. And if we had a falling out, you made a million dollars from that photo. I could say, excuse me, but that was my photo. Not not sure exactly how you prove it. But anyway, here's the the general rule, and this applies to most countries.

So I looked this out, but I will also point out to people, I am not a lawyer. This is just general advice to be aware of. Dig deeper in your particular country. But most countries, including Australia, US, and The UK, the photographer, the person who presses the shutter automatically owns the copyright as soon as the photo is taken. And they don't need to register it to say, hey, I own that photo.

It's just basically automatic, so they don't need to put a symbol on it. And that is what you need to be aware of. There are exceptions, but I'll go to comment on this, Jim, before I get to the exceptions.

Now, I think that's a really interesting point. You know, it's not it's not necessarily the person owns the camera. It's the photographer, you know, the person that took the photos. So if you just swiped your your friend's phone or striped your friend's camera, you can yeah. You have that license, and it's it's yours.

So that's a little interesting thing. I think it's definitely you when know, it comes to copywriting the photos, I'm sure we'll get to it in a little bit. It's like, you know, obviously, you're hiring photographers, and this is really something that if we're making a website or doing any kind of marketing collateral, this is super relevant to those folks.

So what's really important about this, and you might not think about it, but I can give my camera to my wife. For example, say, hey, can you take some photos? Like my digital SLR camera. She'll take some photos. I take far better photos.

When I'm using that camera doing the same thing, I just have a better eye for different angles, lighting, what we're trying to actually get from the photograph. Doesn't mean she can't take good photos, but I take better photos. A professional photographer will probably take better photos again because they just know what they're doing. And this is the importance of when when you take a photo. If you not all photos are equal, but I'm gonna get on the exceptions.

This is the the main part. If the photo is taken as part of someone's job, so and the employer usually the the employer will normally own the copyright unless unless it's otherwise agreed. So if somebody owned a magazine and that magazine employs someone to be a photographer for the magazine, it's in their contract that the rights of all your photos are owned by the magazine because you're now being paid by the magazine to do this. And I think to be safe in podiatry contracts, it would probably be a good idea to actually have that in your employment agreement so that if you happen to take any photographs of patients or things that happen with the clinic or anything that's sort of work related, the rights of those photos are automatically owned by the podiatry clinic. However, you might also give them use to use those photos if they wanna use them as well.

But I think just to be safe, you better to have that written in your agreement than not have it written there and just think, oh, no. Well, it's just automatic that they work for me. But this is what I mean. This is the technicalities that it may not always apply.

It's always better to have things written out. Right? I think when there's there's when it's not left to chance and it's written out, I think it's it's much safer in that context.

Yeah. So the other exemption is if you work for hire, if you if there's a contracted project. So if someone hires a photographer and includes copyright transfer in the contract, then the client will actually own it. So if you're actually employing a photographer to come and do some work with you, you would make sure it's in the contract that you actually own it. If you don't have a contract, then the photographer still actually owns that work.

So you might pay a photographer a thousand dollars to come in and take a whole pile of photos of your clinic and all your staff working. If it's not in the contract that you have the ownership of those photos afterwards, it is still their photos. It's really important to just be aware of that that you need to talk to that photographer beforehand. And I know a lot of podiatrists use external photographers to come in and do photo shoots for them. So just be aware.

Unless it's in the contract that they're transferring it over to you, you don't own it. They still own those photos. And if they take some photos, some really good photos of a foot that you use, they're giving you permission to do that. But if you use it in multiple places, they might say, well, hang on. They didn't say that you could actually do that.

That it's just to be aware of it.

Yeah. That's some of the some some of those licensing deals or the the verbiage of the contract or the verbiage of the agreement can really, you know, limit to what you wanna do. So if you're thinking about using it on your website, in your marketing materials, at different levels of photographers are gonna have different, like you said, kind of use restrictions or use opportunities. So you wanna really make sure that know what you're gonna use it for, and you kind of ask for, like, basically, like, complete if you they'll completely release it to you, you know, going for that complete release or that complete, you know, rights holder option and having them transferred to you is is super it can be super helpful.

And that's why if you go to an event, if you go to a wedding, or even if you have a portrait done of your family, and you're all there smiling, wearing matching shirts or something like that, and it's a family photo, You'll normally find when the photographer sends you the proofs, it'll have their business name somewhere in a particular area crossing out the youngest child or something, so you can't actually use that photo. Because that is pretty much telling you, hey, I own the rights to this photo. If you want a copy of this to put in a frame up on your wall at home, that's great. You need to pay me now to do that. So so once again, unless you've got them to sign it over to you, you can't just take a copy of that, do 10 copies, and go and hand them all out to your family.

They can actually, you can get in trouble for doing that. So the bottom line is unless there's a specific agreement or employment clause, the person who physically takes the photo owns the photo. So just be aware of that. And if you've got a a camera in your work where everybody has access to it and you're all taking photos, then again, I think it's also you got they've gotta prove that they took their photo. But why go down why go down that path of arguing when you can just have it nice and clean?

It's in your contract. You take a photo, it's owned by the clinic.

No. That's perfect.

So the next part of it is artwork that's created by printers or or graphic artists who actually owns it. I used to think when I had a business card designed that that was my business card. I may have said to him, oh, this is how I want the logo to look. And this was in the early days when I didn't know there was actually a graphic artist that you can do all this, which I do now. You go to the printer and go, this is how I want it.

They would come up with some form of logo, and that would be on your business card, your letterhead, any brochures that you produce. I just assumed that was mine. And it wasn't till I had a friend in Cairns who was a printer when they had an argument with another business in Cairns where they had printed some, given it to them, and the next thing that person took that to another printer, got hundreds of them done, and was selling them as a as an item. And they just went, I can't believe this. They're selling them and making money off of something that that is mine.

And I went, but I thought you did that for them. They said, yeah. We did do it for them. Yes. And they did pay the $70 for the graphic design hour that was done, but we own the rights to it still.

They they own the rights to use it for that purpose, not to then take it somewhere else. That was the first time I was even aware that that was a problem. The person who created the artwork, the designer or the printer, owns the copyright even if you paid for it. There's people almost driving off the road at the moment listening in their car going, my god. What you've done is even if you pay for it, you've paid really just for a license to use that design, And it could be for your business cards.

You haven't actually paid to own that design unless they signed it over to you.

Yeah. I think that's why it's really, really important, you know, upfront when you talk to different vendors and, you know, giving different estimates or, know, people tender some estimates to use to let them know that you're hoping, you know, whether it be a local design or business car design that you would like to own it. Because I think that just helps kind of clear the air as far as what your expectations are. It's when you're kind of assuming I think a lot of people will assume, like, you pay for the photos that, you know, you own the copyright or if you, you know, you had them design this logo or this business card for you that you own it. But I think that's when you assume is, you know, when you really get to trouble.

So I think just having a clear and upfront conversation will help, you know, and and it like you talked about in the an appointment appointment agreement employee agreement. You wanna make sure that it's written written out as well. But just having conversation, having paperwork associated with it will help really kind of defray some of these concerns that I'm happy what you're you're bringing up, but hopefully, you can get rid of them, but with a conversation and some paperwork.

Well, I saw that that's old saying that old joke. When you assume you make an ass out of you and me.

Absolutely.

Remember seeing it in Benny Hill in the seventies? I think it was. It was very funny. But how can you make sure that, yeah, you actually own it? It's if you wanna own it.

And I think any artwork, anything that's created that is a representation of your clinic, whether it's your logo, you you need need to own it. So the first thing to to do is have a written agreement or contract that states that the copyright is assigned to you. So my graphic designer, Leticia, it is in we have an agreement. We have a contract that actually says that I own all the artwork. And then she does all that artwork for me, and then I take that to the printer.

And the printer does what I want done with it. And it was because of the printers that I used who had told me that this this all happened. And I remember getting all this artwork done through them over a number of years. And I went, oh, so this, this, and this, you actually still own that? And they went, yeah.

And I went, well, can you sign over to me? And they went, yeah, for a fee. I went, don't be like that. No. They didn't.

They didn't charge me because I have friends, but they didn't have to sign it over to me. That's the part that people are gonna realize. Yeah. Have a written agreement or a contract that states the copyright is assigned to you, or you receive exclusive and perpetual rights of that design, which means you can just use it over and over again and you use it in different places. So I've got some some common scenarios here.

Scenario one, no contract, you pay for the design. Who owns it? The designer. And you have limited use. So it might be printing it on a business card or on a letterhead.

Doesn't mean you can take that logo, go to a different company, and say, hey. I want you to do some signs from a building based on this this logo. Because sometimes sign writers and printers are in the same building. The next scenario, you request print ready files but no mention of the copyright. So the designer's done it all for you, you can take it to a printer, separate person.

Who owns it? The designer owns it. You can use the files, but not alter or you reuse it in any way without permission. So sometimes you can ask for permission, can I use it in this? Or the third scenario, you agree in writing that the copyright is assigned.

Who owns it? You do. And that, to me, is that's all you wanna do is every time you say, I just wanna make sure this is signed over to me. You can even have your own sheet done up and just say, can you sign this so that all the artwork is mine? And if they say no, then go somewhere else to get the artwork done.

If they're saying, no. No. We we keep all the ownership of the artwork. Just go, great. I'm gonna find a printer, a designer who will let me actually have the artwork.

And you're right. You can if you once you own it, you can modify it. You can do whatever, you can resell it, you can package it, you can give it to other people, you can do whatever you want. To me, the best practice upfront, whether it's a photo, photographs that are getting done, or any sort of design work is have an agreement in place that the ownership always comes to you. You're you're covering your bum, and you're not gonna get yourself in trouble.

One scenario we didn't bring up that I thought about because it's something that I've done here recently is Yeah. Develop develop logos and design with ChatGPT. And I just I just looked it up, and anything you any input you put into Jet Chat BT Jet Chat BT and get a logo out, you do home own based on their terms of services as long as it's considered to be relatively original. You haven't kinda, like, copy pasted someone else's logo. The person that created the input and then got the output does own the copyright.

So I do own the copyright of my son and daughter's three v three football or soccer team logos for their tournament. So it's something that, you know, probably more people are gonna be utilizing it. Mhmm. Probably different, you know, different types of AI services are gonna have different terms of service. So if you are using any kind of AI image generator, it it would be good to know that you do have the the copyright to utilize whatever it's produced.

Well, I think everything in general, we're talking about photographs, we're talking about print, whether you're talking about music or just some form of audio. I think anything creative has value. And so anytime you're using something that is creative that you haven't done yourself, I would always just check the rules to make sure. Because I've seen a lot of podiatrists just rip stuff off of other podiatrist websites and use it. And there was one particular podiatrist in general.

Well, I've heard of one podiatrist or a business being sued for $20,000 for doing that. But there was podiatrist who used to work for me who we didn't leave on didn't leave on the best of terms. Next thing, I something someone says something, have you been on their website? And I went, no. I said, have no reason to go on their website.

They said, well, I was on their website, and not only have they taken the picture from your website, almost the whole blog article word for word is yours. And there was just a number of blog articles where they they really just copied everything that I had and put it on their website. And I'm just thinking, how dumb are you? It was just it was not a smart thing to do. I did point it out to them, and they changed it, which is great.

I wasn't gonna go down any legal avenue, but in their head, they must have just assumed, oh, I can just take whatever I want off of somebody else's page and and get away with it.

Yeah. That's not that's not that's not a great thing. Also, these days as well, if you're if you're doing that kind of stuff, if people are doing that, they're taking a photo or something, maybe it's from a stock image company where they don't haven't paid the rights for it. There's lots of AI crawlers and other kind of automated types of software, and they can they can see their image on a bunch of different websites, and they can automate this process to send cease and desist or, you know, try to find you or try to, like, you know, intimidate you if you're if you're using images that are not ours yours on your website. So just do the right thing like we talked about previously, Tyson.

Be a good person. Don't be an, you know, don't be an asshole or don't be a dick.

Don't be a

dick, said,

yeah. You'd be

okay. Yeah.

But I I have seen there's a podiatrically that I know where their artwork is all over the glass of their building. That artwork that's there is a stock photo image. The whole clinic, their website, everything is based on the stock image. And I think they may have actually paid for that stock image, but I think they probably need to go look at the rights of that photo of the stock image. And does it give them use to use it in multiple things on their website in print, on big glass panels at their clinic.

Because all it would take of someone to see that who has a like an evil streak, and I would just go, oh, I'm gonna go and dob them in. They might have themselves covered, they may not, but still, you don't wanna go through those hassles. So just yeah. Like you said, be a nice person. Just do the right thing.

And if you've ripped anything off at anybody in the past and it's on your website, go there and get rid of it. Replace it with an another photo, Especially if you have not paid for it, you just lifted it.

The copy paste.

Yeah. Okay, Jim. I that's all I wanted to talk about on this. I just thought it was something that was it's come up recently, so I just thought it was worth mentioning. And I think it's all about people protecting themselves.

No. I appreciate the topic and learned a lot there. So thanks so much.

Okay. I look forward to talking to next week. Sounds great, Tyson. Okay.

See you.

Bye now.

Thanks for listening to Podiatry Marketing with Tyson Franklin and Jim Mcdonald. Subscribe and learn more at podiatrymarketing. That's the website address, podiatry.marketing.