Understanding the Levels of Marketing

You're listening to Podiatry Marketing, conversations on building a successful podiatry practice with Tyson Franklin and Jim McDannald.

Welcome back to Podiatry Marketing. I'm your host, Jim McDannald. Tyson, how are you doing today?

I'm fantastic, Jim. Good to be here again and talk more about podiatry marketing. And feedback so far to date has been fantastic. So let's keep up the good work.

Yeah. We don't wanna let those people down that are downloading and listening. That would be a total bummer if they just had a a total dud of an episode. So we're gonna we're gonna have an exciting one today. What are we gonna jump into today?

Today, we're gonna talk about what I call meta level marketing, which is more about mindset of of marketing. So when you're when you think about marketing, some people will know tactical. Is it, like, tactical level? And that's, like, just certain things whether you're gonna should we advertise on Instagram or Facebook or should we do Google ads or newspaper, radio? They're all just tactics.

Then you got strategic level, which is looking at a big picture of what you're planning or what is it you wanna achieve through your marketing, your goal setting. But then you got meta level, which is your mindset. And depending what your mindset is on any given day can have a huge effect over your strategy and also the tactics you use.

That makes a lot of sense. I'm really looking forward to checking out these three levels. So thank you. Like you're like you just said, it how how you approach the situation or how you approach these opportunities is almost as important as the actual opportunities themselves. So I I'm ready to dig in and hear what you have to say on these topics.

Well, the best example would be if you have a negative attitude towards marketing. So you think marketing is evil, then you if you keep telling yourself that marketing is evil, then any every any form of marketing or advertising you see, you you will commit yourself that there's an evil message behind what it is that they're saying. And then it'll also stop you from doing any marketing or advertising because you think, well, for marketing is is evil, therefore, everybody else thinks it's evil. So I can't do anything. And to me, that's like holding you back from building your business because of that really, really, like, negative belief, and that's just part of your mindset.

It's also the same as if you think, oh, every time I do marketing, it fails. Now if you keep telling yourself that, the first time you try something, it could be a a tactic that you try and it doesn't work, you'll be going, yep. There you go. Told you. Marketing every time I do marketing, it fails.

Well, marketing marketing doesn't work for podiatrists the same way. So I I don't know if you've heard other people say that before.

No. I definitely have heard it. And actually, when I was in practice myself, you know, I think there's that kind of whether it's true or false, like, there's a fallacy to think that, like, you just put your head down, you work really hard, and then somehow patients will just show up at your door. I think there is some truth that you can get some word-of-mouth that way. But unless you're really, like, going out there and making your community and people around where you you live at, your potential patients to know what you do and how you do it.

You're leaving kind of a lot a lot you know, it's a big message. They're just hoping kind of gradually spreads as opposed to really taking action on it. So I think that's not an uncommon thing, especially people in the medical profession. Right? We've just we don't not everybody sees themselves, like, as a clinic if a clinic owner or a business professional or an entrepreneur.

So people get some people get into medicine to get away from that. Yeah. But if you're in private practice, you really have to make those efforts in order to get that message out there.

Well, I find it funny that some people I remember there was a podi a local podiatrist in town. He won't mention his name. And but we were at a an event, and there were a group of doctors there, and I'm chatting away to him. I used to do a lot of marketing in town, various forms. He had heaps of sponsorship.

So everybody knew the name of my business. And he came up to us, and everyone's just having polite conversation. Him and I didn't get along. And he turned around and said, unlike some podiatrists in town, I don't need to market myself, and wandered off. And all the doctors looked at me and said, I think he's having a go at you.

I said, oh, definitely. Definitely having a at me. You go ahead twenty years, his business pretty much wound up and was like next to nothing, and my business was absolutely thriving. So he was wrong. Marketing was really important.

But with his attitude towards me and towards marketing, I've seen him over the years try marketing and it's awful. I've seen him do place ads in newspapers and try radio and every one of them, awful because he's got this he's got a really, really negative mindset towards what everybody else is doing. It's probably towards marketing, but just his outlook on life is not really positive. So when he's trying to put that together into doing something, it's just it's just not working for him.

Yeah. You really have to look at the kind of the win win opportunities when you're, you know, looking to market yourself. And like like you mentioned, like, you don't have to be perfect, right, when you get going, but you have you have to try to find those areas where you can provide value to a patient and provide value to your practice at the same time. And if you keep on working on those things, iterating, get a little bit better, get a little bit better. Like you said, you have to have kind of that win win or that positive outlook.

Otherwise, you know, you're gonna be kind of down this negative path, which is not gonna benefit yourself, your practice, or your patients.

Well, I remember going to a a marketing event. It was a podiatry marketing event. And I don't know if I've mentioned have I ever mentioned Larry to you before?

I'm not sure you have.

So Larry Larry was an accountant. And Larry wears Hawaiian shirts. So I usually see him every year when I go to The States at a different event. And I'm there one day at this podiatry thing, and there's a guy sitting there. I started talking to him, and he introduced himself as Larry.

And then Larry says, oh, I'm an accountant. I said, Larry, what are you doing at a podiatry marketing event? And he said, have you ever gone to an accounting marketing event? And I went, no. He goes, not as much fun.

And and he said there weren't there weren't I don't know if no. There were any that were on. But what he was saying that he learned so much by being outside of his profession and watching what other people were doing, and he went, wow. If that can work for them in podiatry, then it should work for me as an accountant, which is a really positive mindset compared to someone go, oh, it might work for them, but it won't work for me. So you could see a hairdresser doing something and go and you could point out, look what that hairdresser is doing.

That is a brilliant idea. It could work for them, but it won't work for me. Straight away, that's a negative mindset. And if that's the way that you're viewing what other people are doing, then it's good for them but not for you, then you'll never be able to open your mind up to the possibilities of it.

I think that's a that's a great point. You just have to be keep an open mind and always have that continuous learning, like that drive or that hunger to find something new and just to to learn from all aspects and from all people. I think it's funny because, like, I actually got into this myself because I had been doing some communications and some writing after I'd stopped clinical practice. And then I was do I happened to find myself in a marketing role at, like, a, you know, sports and health technology company. It was when I kinda put that on my LinkedIn that people saw, oh, Jim, the podiatrist, is now doing marketing at a company.

And after a few months of this job, I thought, well, there's a lot I have a network of podiatrists. There's a lot of people I could be helping with these different topics, and I could see how it's making a difference in this business. I'm sure I I'm sure I can find some ways to apply these learnings, like, into helping other podiatrists build their practices, see specific types of patients. So it is, like you said, having that growth mindset or that openness about, you know, not just shutting your brain off and say, oh, it can only work this one way because life is changing, business is evolving all the time.

Well, best what I love about marketing, and I think this is what got me into it, was you just know when it works. Like, you've got your business, and I think there's nothing better than all of a sudden you have this, like, this idea just pops in your head. I wonder if I did this. And then that idea starts rolling around in your head, and then you come up, oh, but if I changed it this way, then you might talk to a couple of people about it. Especially I had a couple of friends if I mentioned it to them and said, it's a terrible idea, then I knew it must have a good one.

Okay. Because they didn't have a positive mindset, and then you apply it. And instead of okay. It may not work the first time, but because I always had a really positive mindset, yeah, my my, like, mental level was, like, really good. If it didn't work, I go, okay.

Why didn't it work? Could I change it slightly? And if I change it, will it work better? So then you would change something. You go, oh, they have a better result.

Still not what I wanted. Can I change it a little bit more? And you slowly just keep making these small little changes and tweaks, but also paying attention to what you changed. And and then eventually, all of sudden, you go, bang. You hit on it, and it would start working.

And then once it worked, you would then just keep keep rolling it out and just keep doing it. But a lot of times, problem because they're so nervous and they don't have a really positive attitude towards things, and they do an ad and it doesn't work, so then they dramatically change it. They change the photo, the text, the font, the headline, the positioning, if it was in the paper, the day that it was run. They make six or seven changes, then if all of sudden it works, they don't know what which what was it that actually made it work. So then it's hard to duplicate the the next time because it could have been they may look at that ad now and go, it worked because I've done all these changes, but then they run it on a wrong day or the wrong place or the wrong media, wrong platform, and it it fails miserably.

And then they go, oh, and then they go sad again and get upset, and their mindset goes back in the toilet.

Well, you have to kinda mix, you know, match that message with the audience. Right? And like you said, it's it's small iterations over time with that positive on you know, mindset. And you're no one's gonna hit a grand slam, you know, like, you know, stepping up to the plate the first time. It's gonna take some time to learn about these channels, learn about the ins and outs about how they work.

You know, maybe you will get lucky or you will tap on to something early that you can, you know, double down on. And over time, you will find those wins along the way. But it's it's really how you approach it and having that positive outlook about, you know, it may not work this time, but I'm gonna keep kind of chipping away at it. It'll be kind of in a good place, you know, as time goes on.

Yeah. And if you're not quite sure what to do, is have the positive attitude and the mentality that it's okay to ask for help. It's okay if they wanna know about online marketing or doing Google Ads. Come and talk to you about it. Or how do you do it for them?

If they wanted to do other areas of marketing with the business or they need coaching, it's come and talk to me about it. Don't yeah. Some people, they just they're too afraid to ask for help. And sometimes the help they need is really not so much doing just the marketing, but they need help just to get their their mindset in in the right frame of mind. Because they always say you're if you have a look at the the five closest people that you hang around with, then if they're very negative and they don't have a good outlook on life, it's really hard for you to have a positive outlook on life.

So you need to bring more positive people in. And so was talking to recently. I don't know if I mentioned this before. And they said, if you have a look at if you're trying to lose weight, if you're having an issue with weight and you're a bit overweight yourself, they said, have a look at the people that you hang around with, and are they really fit and healthy? All the people you hang around with are a little bit overweight as well.

And therefore, you're telling yourself, it's okay to be a little bit chubby. But if I was hanging in you, Jim, I reckon after a couple of weeks, I'd probably lose 10 kilos.

We we go on a few runs or a few bike rides around Montreal. That's for sure. But I think you touched on a really great point, though. It's like this kind of, like, ask for help or just, you know, ask for, like, other people's, you know, what what they've done in the past. Because I think whether it's asking me about Google Ads or asking you for some coaching help, whether it's that that residency mate or that classmate that you haven't talked to in two or three years, like, they're only a phone call away or a Zoom call away.

And, you know, I think sometimes, especially people that are in solo practice, they get bogged down with taking care of staff, taking care of patients. They gotta run to the OR, to the surgery center. Life is very busy. And that half an hour phone call, that that hour phone call with a colleague, while on the surface, it may seem like, oh, I just don't really have time with that for that, and I I can kinda handle it.

Yeah.

But you'd be surprised if you take the initiative to get in touch with that that residency made or that classmate you had at, you know, podiatry school and just have a thirty minute or sixty minute conversation just about practice in general or a specific topic, I think that sharing is is much, much more needed within our profession and, will really help people kind of get over that kind of, like, oh, I don't really have to. It can sometimes kinda give a boost to that, you know, you learn a little nugget from one of your friends, and you feel like, oh, yeah. I can try that now. And it's just people can kind of build off other people's momentum, and sharing is a great way to do that with others.

Yeah. I think feeding off of other people's enthusiasm, their motivation, their their positivity is great and connecting with people that you know that are that are positive. But I also think it's it's really important and Peter Wishni. Do you know Peter?

Yeah. Yeah. I know Peter. Yeah.

Yeah. So Peter and there was something he always says what he has is rain making day where he'll block out a certain amount of time in the week to focus on certain parts of his business. And I think it's also really important that, okay, you're associating with the right people, but you've also gotta allocate time that you're really well rested to then work on the type of strategy where you wanna take your business, the type of tactics that you wanna use, and you do it with a very clear, energetic mind. And and I equate it to could you imagine a brain surgeon, for example, just about do brain surgery? Really important.

And it's on your brain. But before he came into the operation, he did a he did a a marathon. He just finished doing 42 k's, totally buggered, and he it took him four and, yeah, four and a half hours to do this marathon, and then he's he doesn't go and slip on a scrubs and then go perform brain surgery. Because to me, that would not be physically or mentally, you're in the right place to be doing brain surgery. And I think that's what happens with people when they're thinking about marketing and all that.

They flog themselves silly all day, super tired. They go, oh, now I have to do marketing. And they're doing it when they're really tired and they're not getting the best out of themselves, and that can sometimes play in their mind and goes, oh, okay. I'm not good at marketing. Maybe you are.

You're just doing you're trying to do it at the wrong time. And if you can pick the right time and and do it when your brain has got a lot of energy, then you'll find that, hey, I'm better than what I I thought. Then you put that on top of that hanging around the right people straight away, your your mindset improves.

No. I really like that a lot. I think you touched on kinda one of the aspects that, you know, sometimes they're overlooked by people in private practice. It's like the difference between working in your practice versus working on your practice. Yeah.

And, you know, no in no way, like, would we want to go treat a patient we, you know, haven't we're we're super tired. I mean, there's gonna be times when we're tired, we have to treat patients. But, like, if we can help it, right, we wanna have that energy, have that right mindset, and then just really kind of go after those opportunities in an energetic fashion. So I think if you can kind of approach that working on your on your side of the business, you know, as opposed just working in your business with that some same level of enthusiasm energy, it's gonna lead to a lot of success like you talked about.

Yeah. Well, I've had people approach me and they'll say, Tyson, do you do coaching? I always laugh when they ask me that because I'm so I like my website. Yes. I do coaching.

I mentioned it on on podcasts. I mentioned it on podiatry legends. Yes. I do business coaching. But then, like, okay.

I wanna do coaching with you, but I can only do it after hours, like at 07:30 at night. And I said, think of do do you think I wanna be coaching or doing a coaching call at 07:30 at night? No. And I'm trying to get through to him. You need to take out some time during the day to actually do coaching.

Same way you need to take time out during your day to do marketing if you wanna do it properly. The reason I don't do coaching at 07:30 at night is because I like to start at 06:30 in the morning. So by the time it gets to 07:30 at night, I'm not going to be at my best. I will be tired, and I don't think I could give the the client the best the best of me. So if I know that about myself, then I know they're also going to be tired, and they're not gonna take in what I'm saying.

So that's why you shouldn't be trying to do your marketing. Either do it get up extra early in the morning and do it then, or block out time during the day to do it. Don't try and do it when you're tired because, like I said, it's just it ends up spiraling out of control if you're not doing it right. And to me, that it play it plays on your on your mind that even if you think you I know I can do better, but I'm too tired to do it. To me, that just wears you down over a period of time.

Yeah. I couldn't say it any better. I think you're right on the ball. You have to have that that energy, and the the more energy you have, the easier it is to kinda be in a a good state of mind and do great work, and then it's a fulfilling it's a fulfilling thing and not so much a drag or a have to. It's a it's a want it becomes a want to when you see success and you're feeling like you have the energy to do it.

Yeah. And if people are thinking, okay, Tyson, this is all fine. Yes. I need to have a more positive mindset. How do I do that?

Well, we've already mentioned, hang around positive people. Keep listening to this podcast because Jim and I are funny, and we're uplifting. But listen to listen to podcasts that make you feel good after listening to them. Read books that not that are not just business books, even though unless you're reading it's no secret. There's money in podiatry.

But but read books that are outside of business that are just things that are just gonna make you feel better by reading them and, yeah, just nourish your your brain a little bit. So it's audio reading. Watching positive things on TV sometimes can have a massive effect on how you perform the next day. So all the information's out there. You just gotta choose which parts you wanna you wanna take in.

And just remember, especially, like, I definitely think the people you hang around with. If you are with people and you don't leave feeling uplifted, then change your circle of friends.

No. For sure. Think that's great that's great. And family. Good good good luck with that sec that second one.

But there's one I wanted to add on to your list of things to make you feel better. And and, obviously, I'm the runner and the cyclist.

But Oh, yes. Exercise.

I I and and this might sound crazy, and I know that we live in a world of everyone runs or cycles their phone. They have headphones in, but give yourself a chance to unplug on occasion. Go if you don't run, it's okay not to run. Just go for a twenty minute or thirty minute walk just, like, after lunch or before lunch, and just let your mind kinda, like, unwind or let it go where it wants to go. Try not to, like I think during life and during work and in family, we have to, like, really kinda control what we think about and how we act a lot of times.

And our we don't always let ourself daydream or just let our mind go to different places. Yeah. But you'll be you'll be amazed. Maybe maybe for some people, it's in the shower, other people, it's on a walk. But just allow some time during your day just to let ideas bubble up to the surface, whether it's about your practice, about your marketing.

Sometimes your family will be on your mind. But unplug a little bit from all the devices. Get out for a half an hour. Let your let your brain just kinda, like, go, and don't be surprised. Sometimes you'll have amazingly great ideas.

Sometimes you'll have terrible ideas. But it's nice to have that freedom just to let your mind do what it wants to do because we're plugged in so many so much these days. And, obviously, this is a great podcast. So, you know, if you wanna listen to us, maybe that's the one exception. But definitely give yourself a little bit of a chance to unplug, and you'll be surprised.

Like I said, the ideas and inspiration will sometimes come along.

Yeah. I know Dave Wyman, doctor Dave, psychologist, and he said, I think he has two or three times throughout the day where he has it in his diary, ten minute walk. And he walks out of his business, and he just goes and walks around the block. No headphones on. No nothing.

Just leaves his phone behind and just goes for a walk for ten minutes around the block, comes back to work, and he reckon he is so mentally refreshed by doing that. I'm pretty sure he does it three times a day, but I've done the same thing when I'll just go for a walk, you know, whether I'm taking the dog or it's just myself. And a lot of times, I'll have my headphones on, and I'm listening to a podcast or music. But there's other times when I just go unplug, take them out, and and I just enjoy the walk. And I remind myself, somebody said once, when you if you be present in the walk that you're doing, what can you smell?

What

can

you hear? What can you feel? And sometimes you just feel the breeze against your skin or you smell somebody especially if you go in the morning also and someone's cooking toast, or it's a late afternoon walk and you get, bloody hell, someone's got the smoker on. And you're just you're taking it and you're listening to the birds or the water that's running down the the stream that you go over the small bridge. It's surprising when you come back from it how much more relaxed you are and how good you feel.

Then having headphones on, you might be listening to a podcast that could could be uplifting, but sometimes I think it's a great great point. Just unplug and just take in everything that's around you and your own thoughts, which is scary sometimes. If you knew what went on in my head sometimes, you'd be going, yeah. No. Put your headphones on, Tyson.

Well, that yeah. No. That's a scary thought, but I definitely I think it's a great place to kinda wrap things up. Is there anything else you wanna do to let let the listeners know about today?

No. Just just be positive. It it's really a choice. I I really do believe that every single person has a choice to feel good or feel bad about any situation. It doesn't matter what happens.

You choose how you react to it. And I just read a really good article on this this morning as a matter of fact. So I'm gonna post that somewhere. So oh, we'll talk to you next week, Jim.

Sounds great, Tyson. Bye now.

Okay. Bye.

Thanks for

listening to Podiatry Marketing with Tyson Franklin and Jim Mcdonald. Subscribe and learn more at podiatry marketing. That's the website address, podiatry.marketing.