Teach, Learn, Grow: Why Mentoring Is a Marketing Advantage

You're listening to podiatry marketing, conversations on building a successful podiatry practice with Tyson Franklin and Jim McDannald.

Hi. I'm Tyson Franklin, and welcome to this week's episode of podiatry marketing. With me, as usual, is big Jim Mac. How are doing today, Jim?

Doing well. Doing well. Enjoying the warmer temperatures here in Oregon. It's springtime and just now loving life in green, sunny Oregon.

Wish I had an echo button. That would have sounded so much better with the, yeah, big Jim, Mac. Anyway. True. Yeah.

No. All good over here too. Once again, opposite to you, heading into a cooler weather. But in Cairns, we only have two seasons, hot and hotter. So at the moment, we just had no way.

We're heading I was still in autumn. So but heading towards winter, so it's getting really nice. This is when people wanna travel up to Cairns because it's just if you're from down south, you wanna be here this time of year.

Yeah. I gotta come over and visit at some point in time. I don't know when that's gonna be, but I'd I'd definitely try to hit the warmer or the hot, not the the hotter part of the the year for sure.

No. You come over this way, Jim. You can stay with us. You're you're welcome. How many kids you got again?

Two, isn't it?

Two. Yeah. Two.

Yeah. We can take we could have two kids. We'll fit we'll fit him in some way.

Sounds good.

Okay. So what are we talking about today?

Yeah. So today, we're gonna talk about mentoring either students or residents. Maybe it's a younger physician in your community, but I really kinda got onto this topic of mentoring because I over the last few years, I've been a mentor at Stroll College of Podiatric Medicine in Chicago. And I've gotten, you know, not only been able to help out some students, but it's been a kind of a rewarding experience. And I think there's definitely some things that can be gained by folks, you know, looking out for the next generation of podiatrists.

So I think, you know, there there's a bit of a tie into marketing here, but I think it's it's also a plug that if you're not mentoring a student or you haven't been involved with their podiatry school, now is a good time to to seek out those opportunities.

Yeah. I used to love doing that. We used to take one or two students every year from the university that's in our state and have them come up with cans. And and the best part about it, even if like, you hope that if you're looking for someone to employ, you're hoping that student one day might work with you. But if not, you're still just passing on your knowledge, especially if you think you've got a good clinic or you've learned a few things that you can really share with them and hopefully give them a really positive spin on the profession.

Because there's people out there who don't always think in a positive way, and you don't know who they're gonna be talking to you next.

That's it's funny bringing that up because that's one of the the topics I had talked to to the student. The fur kinda my my newest student that I'm mentoring. You know, he's heard kinda, like, good things and bad things about different types of practices and stuff. I'm like, well, it's gonna really vary, you know, who you talk to. So, you know, I'm trying to give them some some guidance and kinda connect them to the network of people you know in the professional kind of, you know, give them a real world grounding when it comes to, you know, trying to figure out the the career path they wanna go down.

But, yeah, definitely, it's it's been a very rewarding experience not only for myself, but, you know, hopefully, I'm I'm providing them some value as well.

Yeah. Well, I reckon if you haven't done it, consider I know some people go, oh, you know, I'm not sure whether I could mentor them. But if you've been in the podiatry profession long enough, you think you're a pretty good podiatrist. You are you are going to have something there, and you're positive. If you're a negative twat, don't do it.

But I think if you're a positive person, you've been around for a little while, and you know that you know more than the students, they are they are always gonna benefit spending time with you.

Absolutely. I think there's a need, at least in The United States, that the schools like, I had two students last year, and then I have my third one this year. So, definitely, there's a need at the different podiatry schools around, at least in The US. So definitely don't be shy to go and and inquire with your alumni kind of relations people there at your school.

And they don't we didn't always just take students from our uni the one the university that I went to either. We Sure. If we got a call from someone who was, like, further down south, a different university, we took anybody. Because we always just felt it was just part of building that that network. And and I love when we've had students in the past, and you bump into them, you know, a decade later at a podiatry conference, and you see what they're doing.

And some of them have gone done gone on and done great things, and some of them, they were duds as students, and they're they're still duds. Nothing's nothing's changed.

That's yeah. Sometimes that doesn't sometimes that does happen.

No. They say you can't polish your poop, but you can put sprinkles on it to her and make it look better.

There you go. So where where are

we starting with all this?

Yeah. We started, but before jumping into that, I will say that a lot of the stories I hear from students though is, you know, they spent time, you know, shadowing a bunch of different specialists. They had a great time with a podiatrist, and that's whether it's, you know, a podiatrist student or maybe someone that's looking into the profession, just being open to those opportunities can really help grow the profession. And like I said, it can build up your network. But jumping into the, you know, some more, you know, specific reasons why I think it can be beneficial for your practice and potentially for your marketing is that, obviously, with the you're gonna show them kind of procedures and what you're doing, but it also helps you kind of build your authority by kind of teaching them and you you having to kind of figure out how you explain what you're doing and why you're doing to somebody else.

You know, they're gonna have questions. They're gonna have you know, they don't have the experience you do, but it does help you kinda position yourself when you do that as a mentor. You know, like I said, you're not just necessarily benefiting them. You're obviously, they're getting a benefit. But when you're having to kind of explain why you do what you do, whether it be the way you practice, why is your schedule a certain way, you know, why do you use digital marketing, I'm sure there's there's different kind of questions that you can help answer for them that will help kind of crystallize your thinking.

Because sometimes, you know, if you're in solo practice, you're kinda in your own head all the time. You don't necessarily, you know you kind of explain it to yourself, but it's something different to kind of create those thoughts and have to say them out loud to somebody else.

Well, it does. It also makes you when you're saying something to a student, and they do then question question you on it, you go, oh, yeah. Why am I doing it that way? And it does. It makes you sort of reflect on how you actually do certain procedures.

And we've even had students who have come in, and they've said, oh, how come we don't put gloves on as soon as a patient walks in the room? Now why would I? I don't even know what I'm doing yet. And and that because at university, that was just so it it also shows them you you can be a little bit lax in certain areas. You don't just have to rub a glove.

You put a rubber glove on as soon as a person walks through the door. But it all and I think the other part too is when a student does ask you something and you're not quite sure about the answer, it makes you go, okay. And it makes you start, when they're not around, reading up on a couple of little things that you're thinking, oh, maybe I've got a little bit a little bit slack in that particular area. The next day, you come in looking strong.

Yeah. Exactly. I think it is a good reminder that I can always be learning, and sometimes, you know, they'll they'll kinda throw you for loop, and it's a good chance for you to kind of to pick those things out. I'll also say that, you know, when you, you know, either you have a student in your office or you're mentoring somebody in the clinic, you're gonna be seen as the expert. Right?

When students choose to learn from, you know, from you and patients see that you have someone that's, you know, in your practice and you're kinda mentoring them, you know, if you're a bad podiatrist or you're someone that doesn't, you know, really get it, you're not gonna have students or, you know, mentees. Right? But it's only, you know, experts are the people that have, you know, mentees and people that follow around with them and and and kinda hang out. So, you know, maybe your your fellow referring providers, you know, patients will kinda be impressed the fact that you actually have people following you around and learning from you. And it and it shows that you are kind of a trusted source and a kind of a trusted expert in that local community.

Obviously, this you know, whoever, you know, you you have these these mentees from, you know, trust you. So it's like a signal of trust for patients. Not, you know, it's not you know, sometimes I think people are a little afraid that, oh, I don't want to, like, you know, mess up the patient physician relationship by bringing in someone that's untrained or that doesn't know what they're doing. But, you know, like I said, it's a huge kind of kind of notch on your belt to say, like, hey. Like, I'm good enough to have mentees following me around.

I can be impressive to to different patients and sometimes other referring providers.

Yeah. I remember I used to my GP I used to go to, and he would often throughout the year have students in within from the university. And I always thought it made him look better than the average GP because the university is not gonna let the students just go anywhere. That they will do a slight vetting process to make sure that person's okay. And, yeah, and I know I do know there were I just think when we had students, I'm assuming the patients looked at us the same way I would look at my GP.

If the university is trusting you with students, then your clinic must be at a certain certain higher level than everybody else.

No. Absolutely. I think getting that kind of rubber stamp or that trust of the big university name, obviously, they probably know if it's a it's a big low local university, they're gonna know the name of that university and probably more it has kinda more brand trust probably than even your clinic. Maybe you've been around a long time, and you you do have a great clinic. But just having that additional trust from the university sending you students to mentor is a huge bonus.

Yeah. And I know we used to even use it in our, like, social media and part of our marketing. When we had students on board, we had photos of us with them doing certain things. We would put it on a Facebook page. Instagram is saying, hey.

Got a couple of students with us this week. And and yet the comments, you get comments back. Patients and other people say, oh, it's really good that you're helping the next generation.

Absolutely. It's like like so you can use it in your marketing. Say, like, we don't just treat patients. You know, we teach the next generation of podiatrists or the next generation health health care professionals or something to, like, kind of show that you're not just thinking about yourself, you're thinking about the future of the community by doing that. But I I definitely agree with you on those points.

It is a way to it's actually a way to market yourself as well. Right? Because maybe, you know, these students or these mentees are coming into your practice or maybe you're doing remotely. You know, they'll they'll have a more of a affiliation potentially with with professional podiatry. So when something happens to their foot or their ankle, you know, their son, you know, shadowed a podiatrist, they know you know, it's almost like a way to have kind of an informal referral network of people that trust you along with kind of, you know, not just the the patients, but also the the network of those students, the other students, the parents of those students, the friends of those students, that they you can kinda gain trust with those folks as well.

Yeah. And I reckon probably 50% of the students we took each year ended up working for us at some stage. They eventually just because when they were looking for work, especially if I thought they were good, and you'd always say, hey. If you're ever looking for work, if you wanna come up this way, please just just reach out. Absolutely.

And when they did, you sort of I've already I've been with them for a week already. I know what they're like. And if they know what we're like and they know how hard we work, then you've really ticked a few boxes.

That totally makes sense.

So what's next?

So next is kinda like a a kind of a brief topic you touched on in the the previous one is that, you know, there's there can be some reverse mentorship opportunities as well. You know, there's you know, by them being at school or in their residency, sometimes they might see some emergent technology or some trends that for some reason you haven't come across yet. So, you know, students are kind of immersed in the latest and greatest. Right? They're always, you know, whether it be, you know, different types of technology or surgical techniques, potentially like digital workflows, thinking like gate analysis or scanning, you know.

People don't usually use, you know, hard plaster cast so much anymore. They're using different, you know, iPhone apps with the LiDAR scanners on them, or maybe there's some some new social media channel that is really big that's that's growing you just weren't aware of. So there are opportunities to kinda, like, learn from them as well. So it can be kind of a two way street as far as that information sharing.

Yeah. I I think the biggest learning factor I got from students in in doing mentoring was really them asking us questions. Why do you do this? Why do you do that? And when you have a a new set of a fresh set of eyes questioning why you're doing some something a particular way, it really does make you look at and then sometimes when you explain, this is why we do it this way, and they go, oh, they're so much better than the university because they understand and and you because sometimes the university are doing things leaps and bounds ahead of what we're doing.

And other times, they're back in the dark ages with a few things. So it gives you an idea of of what the students are coming out with as well.

Yeah. Definitely. Would say their their questions kinda reveal maybe the current patient expectations or preferences sometimes as well. Like you said, if they've been to other clinics, there's a potential that they can you know, well, when I was in this clinic, there was that onboarding a digital onboarding that was really great for the patients that I noticed or, that they kind of had a remote scribe that did all their notes. They didn't have to doctors weren't kind of going out of the room and having to spend ten minutes dictating or writing up a note after the fact.

There's different learnings that can be helpful when you bring these students or the dietary students or other students into the practice to kind of get their take on things and kind of, you know, they are that kind of next generation. Obviously, they're potential colleagues in the future, but, you know, they they can see things in a way that, you know, gets you out of your norm as far as maybe change your perspective a little bit.

Yeah. And I think what's good too is sometimes it it is uncomfortable. When you take on your first student and you're gonna be mentoring them, it's uncomfortable. So if you thought about doing it, you go, oh, I'm a bit I'm a bit frightened about doing it. I've never done it before.

Perfectly normal. And there will be eyes on you, and they will be watching everything you do, and they will question what you're doing. But doesn't mean what you're doing is wrong. It just means you're doing it different, but it gives you an opportunity like we just spoke about to reflect on why you do it a certain way. And have you not kept up?

And now it's a good time to keep up.

No. Absolutely. It kinda gives you kind of a front seat as far as the trends and and where things are moving. Right? So, you know, you can kinda see, you know, their their behaviors, what they've been taught versus maybe what they're missing, you know, with some of the you know, when I when I look back at my own, you know, training, it was I would say it was heavily surgical.

Mhmm.

I think a lot of podiatrists, you know, before me were more into, like, making orthotics in The US and doing more, you know, office based procedures. But by the time I kinda was in residency, we had some time in offices, but for the majority of the time, it was inpatient diabetic care and amputations and after hours cases and, you know, doing trauma and those kind of things. So, you know, it's it's gonna really inform you as far as, like, where things are heading, but also gives you some information about what the like I said, what the students are being taught now and kinda which what direction is the profession heading in some ways for good or for better, you know, for good or for worse. And, you know, are there ways that you can help supplement their education and give them some advice about things that you know you know, what is private practice like versus a group? You can kinda get into these conversations with them because, like, there are gonna be kind of gaps in their knowledge.

Right? There's still students that are learning a lot. And I think when you're a student, sometimes you're kinda going from, you know, exam to exam or hoop to hoop, and you're kinda jumping through things. So, you know, being a mentor gives you an opportunity to kind of maybe help them kind of see the the higher level, you know, kind of 10,000 foot view in a way as far as, you know, what do they like to do. You know, obviously, they have to be attentive to their kind of their current goals, but at the same time, when when their training is over, like, what is their idea of what their profession can be?

And they're gonna be learning along that process, but kind of having, you know, that mentor mentee relationship can help give them that perspective and maybe help bridge the gap some up between the kind of didactic academic learning they're doing and helping them kind of like feel comfortable getting into a residency program or, you know, a situation that is gonna kind of play up to their strengths or the kind of professional life or career life that they wanna have.

Yeah. I've also noticed too when you have a student come in, also gives you a bit of a insight into the mindset of the lecturers at the time too that are at the university. Because I'd have students come through that were super positive towards private practice and having their own business. Because the lecturers that were there were people that had been in the profession for a number of years, had their own businesses, done quite well, were at a certain age where they were going back and working at the university compared to some other lecturers I went through who worked in community health or had a a really crappy boss, didn't like private practice, doesn't work for the government, and then slowly weaseled their way into the university, and then throwing all this negative stuff at students go, private practice is evil. KPIs yep.

Any any boss that has KPIs are just evil bosses. And when you start when you hear that from one student, you go, okay. Who's your lecturer? They tell you. Then you hear from another student the next year.

You go, oh, is it this lecturer? Yeah. And you start realizing, okay. This is something that you gotta be aware of that students are coming out with this mindset, which isn't always the best.

Absolutely. I think that's why I really encourage the students I work with to get multiples perspectives from different podiatrists and different practices who've had different things. Like you said, sometimes, you know, if someone's kind of they only have one voice that's, you know, a negative voice about private practice. They may not have other resources or other people in network to go ask, you know, on the happier side or the positive side of the of of private practice. Right?

Yeah. There are business responsibilities, but there's also a lot of freedom you have when you control your schedule and things like that. So I think it is important to, like, net help them network and help them see different perspectives of similar situations.

Yep. So okay. What's next?

I'd say that just kinda wrapping up that topic too is that you do have a young person in your office. So you can kinda use them as your own, you know, personal survey as far as, you know, asking them some poll ask them some questions about, you know, how do you find dentists, like, kinda getting ideas as far as what forms of social media or marketing works with their generation. Because I said, like, you know, they're you know, if you're trying to get, you know, seniors or people over the age of 60 in your practice, maybe it's not as useful. But if you're living in an area where there's young people and you're trying to attract young, healthy, active people into your practice that need to get better from training for marathon or whatever kind of active lifestyle they have, maybe there's some major pickleball injuries you wanna help out with. Asking them, like, where do they get their information from?

You know, if you were to, you know, tear your ACL, like, how would you find a doctor and kinda get a general sense of what is their path to specialists. And that understanding their thoughts, you know, obviously, they're, you know, younger and kind of, you know, what what is influencing them as far as making some of their care decisions can be another way to, you know, get some value from the these these mentees in your practice.

So drag some information out of them.

Exactly. But but on the next part, I would say that also, like you mentioned I think you mentioned this briefly as well is that, you know, you get some really great students, whether it be university students who thinking about podiatry or podiatry students or, you know, maybe you've you've met some younger podiatrists at some conferences who have questions for you that you can be a resource for them. You know, it's a great opportunity for you to market and find potential associates and team members kind of in a long game format where you can build a relationship slowly. I think sometimes, you know, if you can do that slowly, can get to know somebody over the course of months or years. It can have a bigger impact than having that, you know, that kind of courtship you have.

Like, person's graduating for residency. You've had one or two in person interviews with them. They haven't been able spend much time in your clinic, and it's kinda hard to make a clear decision whether this is the right person for your practice. Because, you know, when we're first getting to know someone in that kind of situation, a lot of people can be you know, could put on a face or could put on a mask and be very professional for, you know, forty eight hours or thirty two hours and then not really be that person that were trying to, you know, show that potential hiring podiatrist. So if you have these kind of long term relationship with the students, you can identify, you know, who's who asked a good question, who who seemed like they have a good work ethic, who wasn't running out the door at, you know, 04:30 to go do something.

I mean, obviously, sometimes students, you know, they have a little bit of free time. They wanna use it. But, you know, what are the kind of potential student or mentee that might be a good opportunity, might be a good hire for you in your clinic in the future?

Yeah. Who the alcoholics are. They're rocking up hungover in the morning and things like that. But it's it's true what you said too, but it's a window into yeah, like, the future of podiatry because I know when when I went through, we were pretty much thrown in a clinic with patients on week six of our first year. Just bang.

We had a clinic on on campus, and we were bang. We were straight into it. As the years went on, so then in your second year, third year, we're seeing more your own clinic, longer hours. As the years went on and the course changed and adapted, then all of a sudden, it changed that they weren't really seeing patients till the third year. And then you're getting feedback from the professions that, oh, wow.

The students coming out aren't as switched on in particular areas. Really smart in other areas academically, but communication was down. Yeah. How to work and deal with patients was down. Their experience of the number of patients that they were seeing was down.

And and it's because you're in touch with and when you've got students coming through, you can you can actually notice these things. Where when I went through, we happen to have some lectures that were just right into biomechanics. So biomechanics was like a priority for them. And because I loved it, I just assumed everybody came out loving biomechanics. And then you have some students coming out and they just hate it.

But then you find out they didn't really learn a lot about it. They did a couple of subjects, but I don't know. Each university seems to have a a focus on different things.

I think it's also like, we talked about building relations with the students, but, you know, you can also kind of they get a general sense of you and your practice. Right? Whether it's your culture, your values, the vision for your practice is. So if they kinda buy into it themselves, this could be someone down the line for you. And, like, students talk.

Right? So if you have if you're super mean, like, you're super, like, you know, not really you're you're doing the mentoring more just to kinda, like, for your own ego. You're not really looking out for the best interests. Mhmm. That will get back to the students.

Right? Some some people just wanna, like, you know, you know I think most people come from a good place when it's wanting to volunteer to mentor students. But, you know, if you're it definitely is gonna spread to the students and potentially to the school. So you wanna make sure that you have kind of a a growth mindset when you're kinda bringing these students in because it is an opportunity to hire potentially some great folks for your your practice in the future.

Yeah. It is a it is a great marketing opportunity for your business, though. Because if you do get a student come in and you do a great job, and like you said, the students talk, if you were a fantastic experience, they will go back and they'll tell everybody else, hey. You should have gone to Cairns and worked at ProArch Podiatry. Yeah.

Just just some experience at ProArch or x y zed podiatry.

Exactly. X y z is is where it's at.

Not a b c. It's x y z.

Absolutely.

So what else?

Yeah. Just wrap it up. I would say that, you know, obviously, like we talked about, you know, you can kinda tell them about your culture, but it's also about kind of, you know, they can help you obviously kind of improve the patient journey. Because like we talked about previously, students are gonna ask why a lot. You know, why do you have people come in ten minutes for the appointment?

Why do you do digital onboarding? And it gives you a chance to kind of tell them about that, but maybe they're gonna point out some other friction points they noticed. Maybe they were in a room with a patient and patient complained about x, y, z to them because because they were there. Right? They were just physically there.

So, you know, it's an opportunity as well to kinda, like, improve your processes. And like like I said, they they have a different perspective. Right? They don't have kind of your built in biases that you have here. They're not the clinic owner.

They're not the practice owner. So they see your clinic and your patient maybe from a little different perspective. So, you know, it might lead, you know, potentially to better online reviews or better kind of optimization of some of your practices, you know, as far as, you know, within the clinic. And then obviously, you know, which could lead to maybe some better word-of-mouth for the practice. So I think it's really, really important that people take the time to consider mentoring, whether it be college students just wanna learn about podiatry or podiatry students at your local school or maybe from another school because it definitely shows them what the real world is gonna be like.

But I think you get as much from that experience as they do. And I know that from my perspective, even though I'm not in practice anymore, I've had the opportunity to mentor some entrepreneurial podiatry students and their questions and, you know, kinda getting to know them over time has not only benefited hopefully them, but also me and the work that I do with podiatrists.

Of all the years we took students in, and we had sometimes just high school students that came in. I always felt I got more from it than what the students did, which is probably maybe this why we kept doing it. I I don't know why. And I know that they got benefits from it and some of them came to work with us, but I always just felt I learned so much having them come in, and it and it helped everybody in the business sort of lift their game a little bit. Whenever anyone knew there was a student come in, the whole team used to get excited about it.

Sure. Because it was fun. That's a good topic.

Yeah. It was a fun one. Like I said, I've had the the pleasure of mentoring three Shoal College podiatry students and look forward to to many more. So, yeah, I thought we'd give a little plug for those out there who haven't either pursued the opportunity or been contacted by your school. Definitely something to look into.

I know that everyone's got a busy life and a busy practice, but at the same time, you know, a day, a month to to have a student come in and view what you're doing and how you're helping out your local community can be an inspiring way for them to get involved with the profession. And there's, like I said, there's some side benefits for your practice as well.

I think it's a perfect way to wrap up.

Sounds good, Tyson.

Okay. I will talk to you next week.

Alright. Bye. Okay. Bye. Thanks for listening to Podiatry Marketing with Tyson Franklin and Jim Mcdonald.

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