Questions to Ask Marketing Service Providers

You're listening to podiatry marketing, conversations on building a successful podiatry practice with Tyson Franklin and Jim McDannald.

Welcome back to this week's episode of podiatry marketing. I am cohost Tyson Franklin. With me is big, Jim Mac. Jim McDannald. Jim, how are you doing this morning?

I'm doing well, Tyson. Excited to jump in today. No. It's things are good here in Montreal, Quebec, Canada.

Yes. The world is almost back to normal. I'm loving it. So I don't know. People are listening to this.

Their businesses are starting to boom. Everything's getting back to normal. Everything's great. So what are we talking about today?

Yeah. So today we're gonna talk about, you know, I think previously we talked a little bit about, you know, finding the right marketing plan or working, you know, what are the different options as far as know, which marketers work with, you know, whether it's a a consultant, a bigger company, a podiatry marketing company. But today, we're gonna get a little bit more into the weeds and really talk about, like, once you kind of are vetting people, like, what are specific questions or what things should you ask before just jumping in and signing a contract or deciding to work with different providers?

Yeah. Well, I told you that story when I went to a breakfast meeting and this guy turns up in a skateboard because that's how you turn up to breakfast meetings. So I'd left my skateboard at home and I chose to drive that day. He rocks in. I'm checking my ass, t shirt on, baggy pants.

And then I said to him, what do you do? He said, I do Google Ads. I do a lot of online advertising with people. Okay. So as I grilled him just a little bit more, he eventually turned to me and said, just so you know, I really don't know what I'm doing, but I'm learning.

So he was taking money from people, no idea what what to do, spending in different places, reading books. So he was learning on somebody else's coin. And I think just a couple of really simple questions would have showed him up that he had no idea what he was doing. I don't know how he got away with it.

Yeah. I mean, I think you bring up a good point there is that, you know, one of the first steps is to understand, like, who else this person has worked with in the past, whether that's, like, you know, calling up for specific references or at least at least looking at the, you know, the the company or the consultant's website. So they have links back and they're standing behind the work they're doing. Right? Because if, you know, if they're doing a bunch of different things, they don't know podiatry, you know, I've heard that a lot in the past as well.

It's like, well, you know, I was working with this local marketer. They're like a friend of a friend and a nice person, but they don't know anything about podiatry. You know, those are different types of time commitments. And while it might be nice to work with a friend of a friend, like, you know, is it worth that extra five hours a week to teach them about what plantar fasciitis is, or do you do bunion surgery? So there's different ways about doing it, but, you know, diving into some of these questions and starting off with understanding the references and who they've worked with in the past is kind of a good way to start off with things.

Well, no. Any sales rep that used to just turn up at my clinic without me asking them to come in, and they would rock they'd sit down. My first question I asked him was, tell me what you know about podiatry. And it was surprising how many sales reps were didn't know anything about what he even did. Then some of them knew it had something to do with feet, and they go, oh, you you cut you look after old people's toenails and hard skin.

And I'm like, see the door? There's the door over there. Get out. Just a simple question. Tell me what you know about podiatry.

Or I'd ask them a question, what did you like most about my website? Cause I'm assuming you're gonna come and see me, you've you've done your homework, and they go, oh, no. I I didn't look at your website. Guess, you don't know what to do. You don't know my website.

Why are you here? Oh, because I've got this ideal marketing package for you. So it's it's almost laughable sometimes.

Yeah. I mean, I think there has to be some a certain amount of due diligence that people have to go into that initial call, that initial, like, you know, contact point with those people. Right? If they had just cold called you out of the blue and you're on the phone with them, right, like, it's probably not the ideal situation. It's trying to find a time to meet with someone and to kind of, like you said, dive into understanding what they already know about you.

Because, like, they don't know to know everything about your clinic, but they need to at least have a general sense of, like, what does your current website look like, at least a surface level evaluation of what you're currently doing, but just to, like, kinda start off a relationship. Because if someone's cold calling you out of the blue, you know you know you know, it could be like I've I've had it happen to some of the clients I work with. Right? Just, like, basically, just kinda telling lies. Right?

Like, you know, we have we we we had this clinic and they didn't like podiatry growth, so they went with us instead and, like, well, I've had, like, two or three clients in my entire, you know, like, professional life, you know, working with podiatry, and I still have them on my roster. So, like, no one's left, but you have to kinda be wary of wary of some of these, like, I'd say, like, predatory tactics with an understanding, like, those references, their past work. And then it's not only like we talked about, like, it's not part of it too is that you're gonna have to spend time bringing these people up to speed, whether it's somebody who does a lot of podiatry or does none. Right? There's gonna be a range amount of time you have to spend with someone.

And not and just because someone does podiatry, right, doesn't necessarily understand what you need or what you want as well. And I think that's kind of like the second point that is really important to bring up is that, like, the first at least the first conversation, if not multiple conversations, should be really about you and your practice and what you want more than just, like, here's this, like, portfolio of all these things we're gonna do for you. Because I think that's kind of the easy jump for a lot of, like, marketing companies or agencies or even sometimes consultants is, let's just jump into tell you I'll just tell you exactly what you need right away And not not and it should be more of a consultative, like, listening session where they should be listening to what you need and understanding what you really wanna get out of your practice so they can help, you know, at least create something individualized.

Is this a problem probably, like, especially on the online world, if people looking at, you know, Google and Facebook advertising and they approach a company to help them do that, is really they're only talking to somebody over phone. Maybe they might have a Zoom call, but they're really like, they could be sitting in an office with yeah. Look. The office looks self that looks fantastic, but then on the outside of that office, there there could be in a in a shed somewhere where there is nothing. It's just it's it's fake.

How how can people are there certain questions that you would ask somebody if they were approaching if they were an online company? Or maybe you've sourced them out. You you're searching for somebody. Are there certain questions that you would ask?

I mean, yeah, I definitely ask first, I would start, like I said, though, is, like, just making sure they're, like they're asking you what you want and what you're trying do with your practice. Like, if they're just jumping into prescriptive methods about how they're gonna get you 50 new patients that month, or, like, if they're just jumping into, like, results and all the things they're gonna do for you, like, that's a that's a bit of a red flag in my mind. They really need to be listeners first and foremost.

Yeah.

Once they've, you know, listened, you know, I think the the next step is generally for me, like, you know, having the process what they listen and then coming back to you with at least a couple of different things. The like, what some some people and some providers, like, I'd say more on the consulting side, will maybe ask that you kind of engage more like an audit or kind of a kind of a first step in building a relationship. So whether this is kind of like building a marketing plan, you know, basically doing an audit of all your current online activities, for example, like, you know, looking at your website, looking at your Google rankings, looking at what local competitors are doing, and basically providing you, like, a one off kind of written report and audit with kind of some plans and steps you could if you choose to go with them, that they'll basically, like, you know, they'll kinda charge you for it. So whether that's, like, $500 or a thousand dollars, depending on how much time and effort they're putting into this plan, some type of, like, first step of a deliverable so you can see if this is, you know, test it's kind of testing the relationship.

Is this person that you, you know do they do good work? Do you have something to go by before you just either sign a contract for 3 to $5,000 a month for the next year? I think that is the next thing is to, like, understand. You know, obviously, you can ask what their rates are. You know, what is their what is their core competencies?

You know, what do you do better than other podiatry marketing agencies or other people, you know, in in this kind of segment of the market, like, what makes you better or what what do you not do as well as somebody else? I think these are fair questions. But, I mean, you know, you're gonna get different levels of answer, different levels of amounts of honesty depending on who you're talking to. So you definitely have to, like, ask hard questions. And and, like, you know, if you do like, during that kind of vetting process, if you do say, want to do sports medicine, for example.

Right? Like, give me some examples about how you helped, you know, these other clients do similar things to me. Because, like, there is some customization and individualization that needs to be taken into account based on your local area, what you wanna do, you know, but it's not it's not so individualized that you have to reinvent the wheel every single time. And if they don't do well on Google Ads and you want someone that does well with Google Ads, like, you know, you don't want someone just kinda, like you said, learning on your own dime. Mhmm.

So you need to really understand what they do really well because they're gonna say they do everything probably most of the time, but there's probably one or two things they do they're kind of those core competencies are really important to understand.

Yeah. But it's no different and and I know it also, if I was talking to him, ask, have you got some clients that you've worked with that are very similar to my business that I could I could ring up and give them to give me their opinion? And I think it's no different, like I said, off air before about coaching. If somebody approached me and said, what are your strengths in coaching? I would tell them what my strengths are, what makes me better than everybody else.

I would tell them exactly what why I think I am a better business coach or mentor for certain podiatrists. But it's the same thing. Before I take anyone, we normally have a Zoom meeting like just like you and I are doing here, and I ask them questions about their business, and I take down 11 notes. And before I even had that meeting, I've checked out their website. I've done a lot of homework.

So I have a fair idea whether I think I'm gonna be able to work with them or not before we even have the meeting because I've really studied them. Then the meeting is just do we like each other? And and are we a good fit? And I think you should do exactly the same thing with anyone that you're you're handing money over to. You'd need to know that they know what they're doing.

No. A %. I think one thing that I'd one other question I asked, and it seems like almost silly to have to ask this question, but do you work with any of my local competitors? Right? Like Oh, yeah.

Do you do you already service a clinic, like, you know, across the street? Because you'll be surprised. Like, like, you know, in medicine and podiatry, you know, we hold ourselves at a very high kind of ethical standard, and that's like, you know, one of the things that by jumping into the marketing or even calling myself a marketer, I sometimes feel like there's not the same level of ethics and kind of, like, responsibility to the client that's always shown. So, you know, especially with some of these larger companies, whether it's an automated growth service or sometimes people that are just, you know, obviously, maybe offering a very attractive price Yeah. For their services, you'll have to understand why they're able to attract, you know, like, offer that that low attractive price.

It's because either they're not willing to, like, just kind of go with you in that local area. For example, with me, whenever I take a client, like, in a city or in a suburban location, like, I I can't have another client within, you know, a reasonable distance, know, away. Maybe it's that's a couple hours, three hours. But if there's any potential conflict, I'm personally not gonna feel comfortable and feel like I'm being honest to a person I'm trying to help grow their practice to. So but you'll be surprised.

Some some other companies are not that way. Oh. They feel like they feel like they could service both sides of of those things, but that's not the way I do things. So make sure to ask that question.

Yeah. Well, it's one of the questions I ask when it comes to coaching. That's why I go and check out where they are. And if they're if they're in the same marketing area as a coaching client already have, I just tell them I can't do it. I said I can't coach two people in the same area.

So it's just a it's just a conflict. If they're in a, like, a group situation, that's different because they'll know they're they're actually they know each other, and that's how they ended up in the group. But I I know there's a coaching company here in Australia that I was talking to one podiatrist, they told me who they're with. Then I was talking to another podiatrist, they're only about two kilometers from each other. I'm going, oh, you've got the same coach.

But I didn't tell them. I thought, well, you guys either already know this and you're comfortable with it. It's not up to me to say, do you realize you got the same coach who's just I I couldn't do it myself personally. I just would feel uncomfortable. But I know marketing people do that probably all the time because they they may not think there is a conflict.

But I if I got a marketing person, I'd wanna know.

Yeah. There's a bit of cognitive dissonance, I think, to, like, say that, like, you could really treat the same two clinics across the street, you know, and provide the same amount of value, you know, in the same location. I think that, you know, there's definitely ways of partnering with local competitors that maybe you're the sports medicine person. So I'm not saying it's like a zero sum game with these things. But if you're both running Google Ads, like, these these are kind of competitive systems that will up bid and and increase spend.

So you have to be very, very cognizant about, who you're working with and making sure that they're they have your best interest in mind. I think that's a huge important component of that is that this is not and there's different ways that people will operate as well. Think that's another good question to ask is, are you kind of a retainer based service, or are you kind of like a build and disappear service? I think, you know, there's there's different ways of going about building a website or doing Google search ads or doing different types of marketing. If you're looking for people just to kinda, like, build and leave, this is gonna be, like, I wouldn't say, like, a super painful cycle, but, like, nothing is stagnant online and on the Internet.

Like, it always always requires refinement. You know, having someone that you can trust over the long term and build a relationship is because they're not only, like, your website builder. Right? This is someone that's really helping you plan, like, a strategy for your marketing online for a long term because you're busy in your practice. You don't have time to say, like, is it, like, you know, TikTok or, you know, like or Facebook or Instagram?

Like, where should I be at? Where are my ideal clients at? Like, if you have time to do that in your own practice, you know, god bless you. Like, that's awesome. Good for you.

But, like, to have someone that has their finger on the pulse as far as where the technology is going, where the trends are, where your ideal patient's hanging out and, like, kind of and someone you can be held that can be held accountable as a trusted partner in this process. You know, is it gonna be a little bit more expensive? Absolutely. But that peace of mind and that time savings of you not having to keep your eye on those, you know, on that ball at all times is a huge kind of value add that, you know, when you see someone as the website builder, right Yeah. You may not kind of it's it doesn't seem like that's possible.

If you see someone as, like, your marketing partner or the person that you rely on and trust to, you know, help you grow your your clinic is a really important aspect of this.

So if somebody hasn't done much advertising before, is there is there one or two questions that you would just go, yes. The the these are the two or three top questions you should ask anybody, whether it's online, whether it's offline marketing, anything in general.

I mean, I I still I still kinda come back to that The the first thing I said is, like, they they should really be a good listener to you first. I think when it comes to, like, different types of advertising and paid campaigns, it really has to be targeted not only to your location, but to to your strengths. You know, if they're really pushing kind of, like, I'd say, kind of cookie cutter or vanilla type advertisements, right, like, we're gonna do this heel campaign or we're gonna do this thing, and it doesn't align with what you actually had told them about what you want to do. Those those kind of malalignments, I think, are the you you might just, like some people, I think, are so exasperated that they don't know, like, what to do that, like, they're just, like they almost give in to the process once they get on these phone calls. Right?

Like, I know I should be doing digital marketing, so I'm gonna kinda do whatever this person says. And I think it has to be more it has to like, both people have to kinda give in this process. Otherwise, like, it sets up an opportunity for kind of a malalignment of like, not only incentives, but also for expectations. Because if you're you know, if you said you've said this person multiple times during, you know, your talk with them to, like, sports medicine is important. Orthotics are important.

These things are important to you. And then, like, anywhere at the end of the call, middle of the call, they say, hey. Let's do some Google Ads about heel you know, let's do it about heel surgery or fractures or emergency medicine in podiatry. And you did not mention that one iota during the conversation, like, those are the things I think are more important to, like is having these active conversations or these active kind of, like, discussions about things as opposed to, like like I said, just, like, showing up and saying like, give me the digital marketing package and expecting like you to be happy and for them to deliver results.

Because I've dealt with so many marketing reps and the different reps that some of their they really want to help you and others that they're just trying to sell a product. And I had some really good and bad experiences. And with some people that I thought I I knew them well and I liked them and I trusted them and I was like almost like a friend, And then you find out afterwards you that you were just you were just another person to them. And and you can just tell by their actions. It's I really think the marketing person's going to help you.

Like you said, they're asking you questions. They really, really want to to help. And you can tell the difference between that and someone who's just trying to sell the product. It's no different to a podiatrist trying to flog a pair of orthotics off to a patient that doesn't need them, and the podiatrist who is genuinely trying to explain the benefit of an orthotic and why they need them. And I think patients pick up on that.

A %. I mean, like, that that's the exact same point I was gonna make. I was gonna say, it's like when you pick up a chart and you see that on the chart that your nurse took some notes. Right? Like, maybe the it says, like, patients had heel pain for two months, has done these this, that, and that.

And if you diagnose that patient from that nurse's note, you walk in, you tell them exactly what they need, you don't listen to them, you have kind of your you know, the treatment plans in your mind, and you're just not even, like you're you're talking past that patient. Right? You're not talking with with that patient. And it's and, like, I don't wanna be blasphemous, but it's the same thing, like, with marketing. Right?

If if the if the marketer has an agenda or, like, you know, we wanna do this for you and, like, it's not lining up with exactly what you'd talk you know, what your expectations or what your needs are, It's not, you know, maybe they're maybe they're having a bad, you know, a bad day or there's not listening that day, but like, it's obviously not a good fit. You should try to find someone that is gonna listen and is kind of that right fit person for you in your practice.

Yeah. I think that's a really good point. It's like I said, with the whole explaining orthotic to a patient, the patients can see when something is not legit. So you should be looking at those signs yourself when a salesperson comes to you, is ask them or I think ask enough questions to make them uncomfortable. Because if they're legit, they won't get uncomfortable.

But if they're a bit hesitate in their answers, then you'll probably find they're not really sure about the product themselves. It's just it's just a job. They could put food on the table, roof over their head. They just need to sell it.

Yeah. On on to the next one. On to the next one. If you don't you know, there there's five other six other people on their next sales calls to, like, get to. If that's how you feel, then, yeah, it's it's not a good fit.

And like you said, just like you can read a patient, a patient can read you. It's the same thing with these different, you know, marketing agencies. If you get a feeling like they're they're wanting to sell you on something, they're probably wanting to sell you on something. Right? Yeah.

Trust your instinct when talking to these people.

Yeah. I had a I had a sales rep that I knew had known for a number of years. She was working for a newspaper, then she'd moved to one of the TV stations. And I I was wanting to do some stuff on TV. So I was working there for a little bit.

There's one day she turns up and she's got this guy with a Phil. Phil's not listening to this, so I can say his name. And so I thought, oh, this must be her boss because she he seemed a little bit older. I thought maybe he's just yeah. He wants to meet me, wants to, you know, just find out what she's doing.

Anyway, so I said, oh, so Phil, who are you? And she goes, oh, so Phil is gonna be your new sales rep. And I went, I don't even know Phil. Why? And she went, oh, well, when when we start to get busy, when a new person comes on board, we'd like to farm out some of our clients.

Farm out. She said that. Farm out. And I went,

are you a cow?

Yeah. I said, I'm not a freaking sheep. I said a sheep, actually. I said, I'm not a freaking sheep. Nice to meet you, Filthy Phil.

But I said, Phil, tell me what you know about podiatry. Knew nothing. And I said to her, you could oh, that was the other thing. We had the appointment. Was, like, at 9AM.

They rocked up forty five minutes late. Didn't even apologize. So I said to Phil and her, piss off. I told them, get out. I said, you know what?

I there's other TV stations with what I wanted to do at that point in time, and I never used them again after that. It was just it was so insincere what they were trying to do. And and I think this happens marketing happens in the coaching world. When people get busier, they just try and push them off to get somebody else to actually do the work, and you'll find the quality of the work will actually drop.

No, for sure.

There's no way I was gonna use Filthy Phil.

No way. Sorry, Phil.

I haven't seen you. I bumped into certain things. When I see him, I still call him Filthy Phil. But he doesn't know that I was I didn't tell him at the time that I was really I told him to get out because I was busy, I didn't have time. Said, I'll get back in touch with you.

Was ten years ago. Never got still waiting.

You're still you're still waiting for it, Falco.

Yeah. And when you when you look back and you reflect on it, you go, yeah. They didn't have my best interest at heart. It was all about them. It wasn't about me.

So I I think this topic is really, really important.

Yeah. And like if people do have, you know, questions or, you know, if they wanna go beyond what we talked about today, definitely, know, Tyson and I are available to discuss those things. I know that sometimes, you know, it it can be a little bit intimidating, you know, with such what comes in with an agenda and, like, acts like they know they're talking about or, like, you know, we've done this x, y, and z and has kind of out of control, you know, outrageous, you know, results that they're claiming.

Yeah.

But yeah. So Tyson and I are available, so don't hesitate. You can always send us these amazing offers so we can kind of, you know, vet them for you a little bit and and give some feedback if needed.

Yeah. But I've done that with some of coaching clients. Someone will approach them. I get, don't sign anything. Send it to me.

Let me have a look. And they'll send it to me and I'll go, no. Don't do it. Or I say, oh, this is good, but tell me you wanna take this this part here and you wanna put that there, move this around, and then tell them you want, yeah, four free editorial as well. Yep.

I said, now they'll come back and say, no. We can't do that. And you go, okay. Let's not worry about it then. It's it's surprising how fast all of sudden they can approve things when when you decide that you're not gonna spend money with them.

So and that's what I say. Any person you're doing any marketing with, everything is negotiable.

Yeah. For sure.

And if they can't modify the price, they can throw in freebies. I don't know what freebies you offer there, Jim, but it's a polite conversation.

They get my my podiatry experience, my expertise. They get they get a lot they get a lot when they work with me.

So Yeah. Okay. Do you got anything else to cover on this particular topic, or are you done?

No. I think, like I said, just make sure that you they're listening to you. You check those references. Make sure they're not working with someone in your local area. Mhmm.

If you have other questions, you know, Tyson and I are available. But I think we touched on some really good stuff here today.

Yeah. And I'm open to that too. If somebody has been approached by something, send me an email. And, yeah, I'll I'll get I'll send you an email back and tell you what I think. And I'm sure you'll do exactly the same thing.

Absolutely.

What's the best email address for us? My personal email or we're gonna which which email?

Oh, if they go check on podiatry.marketing, there's a way to send us some some feedback and some emails.

Yep. Okay. Go to the website podiatry.marketing. So, Jim, I will talk to again next week.

Sounds great, Tyson. Okay. Bye. Thanks for

listening to Podiatry Marketing with Tyson Franklin and Jim McDanald. Subscribe and learn more at PodiatryMarketing. That's the website address, podiatry.marketing.