Marketing Pillar #1 - Professional Referrers

You're listening to Podiatry Marketing, conversations on building a successful podiatry practice with Tyson Franklin and Jim McDannald. Welcome to Podiatry Marketing. I'm Jim McDannald. I'm here with my cohost, Tyson Franklin. Tyson, how's it going today?

I am fantastic. Life is good over here. Assume it is over where you are too.

Oh, always. Always. Things are good in in Canada. Not not no problems over here. So let's jump into kinda what we're gonna talk about today.

We are gonna talk about professional referrers. So if anybody's read my book, it's no secret. There's money in podiatry. Just happen to have a copy right in front of me here. Might as well give it a plug.

Shameless plug. Yeah. Shameless plug. And oh, was it there's nothing wrong with shameless self promotion. Anyway, in my book, I have the marketing second part of the book is all about marketing, and I talk about the six pillars of marketing.

And the first pillar is one, professional referrers. So I thought over the next couple episodes that that I do, the ones that I talk about a certain subject, I will go through those six pillars. So the first pillar, professional refers. That's what I wanna talk about today.

That's awesome. I think that's a great place to start, and I think it it me it's a great place to start not only because it's a great topic, but I think a lot of people just getting into marketing or just really trying to take a proactive approach to making more awareness about their practice, starting with doing referrals and being visible to different folks in the local area, but also in that kind of health care system is a is a huge opportunity there. How about you just let us know kind of like where where would people your ideas as far as getting started with professional referral network of folks?

Well, first, it's identifying who they are. Yeah. So it's your doctors, your physios, your chiropractors. To me, a a professional referrer is anyone that potentially would could write you a letter that the patient will bring with you. Not they don't always come with a referral letter, but in general, that's what you're sort of hoping for.

And so I think the first part with professional refers is really look at all the professional refers in your particular area and identify who they are, where they are, and are they the sort of refers that that you want. So not every referrer is equal. So there might be a a doctor that you know. Only bulk only bulk bills, lower economic, you know, sort of patients. The clinic doesn't look very nice.

Now it doesn't mean you ignore them, but more than likely, they may not be servicing your ideal client. So you wouldn't make them a priority that you'd see them before, say, a doctor, physio, chiropractor in another particular area. But to me, once you start seeing your professional referrers, I think the main thing is you you need to stay top of mind. And the only way to do that is you've gotta constantly be seen and you've gotta be heard. Just doing a, you know, one visit, one email is not enough to actually change their referring habits.

So you might yeah. Say, for example, I've come to see you, Jim, and we're we're chatting away. You like me. I like you. And I think, oh, that's fantastic.

Jim's gonna start referring a lot of patients to me now. But for the last twenty years, Jim has been sending them to, yeah, Mary down the street. So even if Jim liked me and he might refer me a patient the next day and the next week, but if I don't maintain that relationship so and nurture it so Jim remembers that I'm there. Yeah. So he sees me and he hears about me.

Eventually, Jim's gonna go, oh, podiatrist. Who was that guy again? You know, just send him to Mary. So they they very quickly go back to their old habits.

No. Exactly. Like you gotta break that cycle or break that habit. I thought you touched on a really important point just like a couple minutes ago that I wanted to rehash. It said, you know, choosing who those kind of referrers are and making sure they kind of match your ideal client is really, really important.

Because I think you're like you said, like if you're gonna go after runners, right, you're not gonna be hanging out with doctors that are taking care of senior citizens or Yep. People doing diabetic wounds or such. So think it's a lot of the kind of topics we've talked about previously. I've seen some some older podcasts, you know, really tie into this referral network and how you go in and kind of build those bonds with other, know, with running shoe stores or physios or chiropractors or wherever your ideal client is. I thought it was a really good point.

Yeah. Because this and that's what I meant. They're not all equal, and very quickly, you may be able to determine the ones that you wanna see as priority. It doesn't mean that they're always gonna be the people that will refer patients to you, but more than likely that they may. And I think the the other part to sort of consider too is to to remember that your professional referrers see the same marketing that you put out to your patients.

So if you're talking to a professional referrer, you go, oh, we just provide, you know, the most premium service. Everything is great. But your marketing is saying, hey. We're we've got discounts. We're the cheapest.

We both bill. Then your professional referrers are seeing the same stuff that your patients are seeing. And if all a sudden there's like a mitch mismatch in what you've told them and then what they're saying, they may not be sending you the right patient. So if you are the most advanced or if you are a premium service, whoever you're talking to the professional referrer, make sure that's also reflected in all the marketing that you're basically doing.

Now that makes a lot of sense. You have to really kind of develop that message. Not only your ideal patient, like you said, but just how you message, you know, put out into the world, like, what you wanna get into your clinic. Because like you said, not only do your patients see that, but, you know, potential patient, but also potential for first.

Yeah. And coming back to, yeah, nurturing the relationship and making sure you you stay in touch with them. Sometimes you will have someone who will be your great referrer. You might be getting lots of referrals from it and all of sudden it stops. And it's not always your fault.

That's something really important to remember. Yeah. You can only control the things you

can control. Right? So sometimes sometimes those things aren't gonna work your way.

Yeah. Prior to COVID, we used to do a lot of personal visits, which were great. You know, you could could put a face to a name. And I think if you if you've still got the ability to do that, if you're in an area where COVID isn't a problem at the moment, but a lot of places are still not really wanting the these personal visits. I think you just gotta get more creative, like using videos, for example.

We can talk about videos in more detail later, but there's certain programs where you can shoot a video, you can email the link to your professional referrer, and when they click on that, it is you actually talking to them saying, hey, Jim. How are doing? Just thought I'd introduce myself. If no other podiatrist in your area are doing this, straight away, the doctor getting it is gonna go, wow. I haven't received this before.

That is different. All of a sudden, you're starting to starting to stand out. But if you do happen to do a personal visit or you might be at a networking event and you bump into a professional referrer and you meet them, you talk to them, and the conversation's great, always saying, every time you talk to a professional referrer in any setting, soon as you get back, take notes. We'll pull your phone out, go to your notes section, and take notes of the conversation and what was said. If you could go back and have that conversation again, would you have said or done anything differently?

And you keep a follow-up. You keep this as a record on that pack that actual professional referrer.

No. I think you're right. You have to find ways to not only for them to send you value, but also provide value for them. So, So having those conversations with them to understand as far as what kind of patients do they want to see in their practice, and making sure that when you develop this relationship, it's kind of a win win. It's kind of a vicious cycle that kind of builds on itself.

Sending patients to you you want to see and treat and vice versa. You're also kind of feeding into their practice because we can you kind of want to go get those referrals from folks, you also want to be a source. Let's say you need kind of your go to physio or you need someone to help you develop kind of better treatment courses for some of your patients, having them in the loop and using them referrals is probably going to multiply or just at least get patients back in kind most likely.

Yeah. And, like, nurturing a relationship over time, some of those professional referrals will become really good friends. You will see them a couple of times and you will see them in a networking event and then you might see them, yeah, at a running event. And the more often you see them, the friendlier you get. And there's no limit to how many friends you can have with other physios or chiropractors or, you know, referring doctors.

But you'll find the ones that refer you the most are the ones that you've actually maintained that relationship with. So I listed a couple of things down there. When I when I talk to people, they'll normally come and ask me, oh, so what what are your tips? What are some ways that I can actually nurture this relationship? I've noted a couple of them.

Everyone knows that you give a referral from somebody, might be a local physio, through the letter, you read it, you treat the patient, and you write back. I call I call that an expected report. When the when the physios refer them to you, they assume that you're probably gonna send a report back, what your findings were, what sort of treatment you're gonna do. One tip, always just write in plain English. Don't use all the podiatry term and jargon.

It just confuses them. They don't know what we're talking about, so keep it simple. But the other type of report is what I call an unexpected report, and that's when patient comes to see you. It might be a knee problem. You treat it.

They think you're awesome. You go great. And you and during the conversation, you would say, oh, by the way, have you ever seen your physio or doctor about this? And they go, yeah. I had I had mentioned my knee problem.

The physio was looking at it ages ago. And they go, oh, they never told you to see a podiatrist. No. He never came up in conversation. Okay.

Would you mind if I actually write to your physio just to so this could be part of your medical file with them, that they just know that you've come to me with that knee problem, head treatment. It's now going great. Patients always say yes. You write the report to the physician. Very polite.

Just saying, god, just to let you know, yeah, Mary came in and saw me. I had this knee problem. She she sort of mentioned that she may have mentioned it to you in the past. She wasn't quite sure. Anyway, this is the treatment I've done.

These are the results we've had. You may see Mary again before I do, so you can just keep an eye on it. Usually, by the time you do about the third report, all of a sudden, whatever whoever that person was, you're stuck in referrals from. Because they're realizing, hang on. This person thinks I'm a bit of a dill because I'm not yeah.

That's a third patient now with a knee problem that they fixed that I have not referred on. So that's what I call an unexpected report. And that works really, really well.

No. I think that's it's important to kinda like build those connections, right, even if you don't have a connection right away with that person, whether you're, you're helping facilitate the care of people in the local area, whether they're taken off guard by that or just definitely, it makes you definitely more aware of who you are and the kind of care you're providing. I think one thing we hadn't talked about, and I thought we're talking about lot of external specialties and lots external chiropractors and physios, I think there is also internal kind of podiatry referrals as well. I think this happens a lot in The US, because there's kind of a very big spectrum or range in care that people will provide. You know, some people are really happy to be the sports medicine orthotic person just do a lot of kind of musculoskeletal care.

And then there's a per the other people that really want to be the surgeon, the trauma specialist, the diabetic wound care specialist. So even though we're all podiatrists, it's also important to realize that there are these kind of small sub sub specialties. And if you don't enjoy doing wound care and Doctor Smith down the road enjoys doing it, you know, building kind of a positive, you know, inter kind of, you know, I guess, say, interdisciplinary, you know, podiatry referral network can also be something to explore.

Oh, I agree. I remember when we set up a a particular podiatry business, and it was just 100% sports biomechanics orthotics. That's all we were doing. No general foot care. However, in the town at the time, I think there was there were two podiatrists there.

And then I was telling them that I was sitting at this business not doing any general foot care. Both of them really didn't wanna have anything to do with me because I was gonna be in opposition. I'm thinking, hang on, guys. You're not you're not understanding. I'm not doing any general foot care.

Your businesses are quite busy with general foot care. Anyone that comes to me, I need to refer them somewhere. Neither of them want to have anything to do with me because I was now the new competition in town. I'm thinking I'm just scratching my head going, okay. Well, I know you do biomechanics and orthotics as as well.

But when somebody comes to me and says, I want, yeah, an ingrown toenail treated, which we weren't going to do, I want to send them somewhere, but neither of them wanted to form a relationship. So I think that's a really good point that you can get referrals from other from other podiatrists if you're smart enough to talk to each other and find out what your likes and dislikes are.

That that can be a hard part though. Right? Because you, you know, you get out of training or you're just, like, in a new place and you really feel like you have to, like, stake your claim to that area. But just like I like you said, there's gonna be some things you do really, really well, and then there's other things you don't wanna do. And just finding those people to help complement the care that you provide can be hugely beneficial in a very symbiotic relationship.

Oh, it's no different to when any clinic I've had when I was working in myself. I don't treat ulcers. It was just I don't do it. Someone's gonna, oh, I've this ulcer. Don't show it to me.

I'm not interested. I don't wanna treat it. It'll make me sick. So I would always just send them off somewhere else. But it's having that relationship with other podiatrists, which is which is really, really important.

For sure.

So one of the other things a tip I'd give people to build up this relationship, find an excuse to email them. So, Jim, if you were the, you know, the the podiatrist I'm having a relationship with and I wanna I wanna nurture that relationship more, is I just gotta find an excuse to email you. Oh, our hours have changed. Oh, we've got a new staff, we've bought a new piece of equipment. Oh, the hours have changed again.

We're now open on on weekends. We're we're doing something new. Oh, we went off and did some some extra training, and we brought back this extra knowledge. It's just finding an excuse. It doesn't mean you're emailing them every single day, but you just wanna at least be in contact with them every few weeks so they know that you're there.

And then that ties into creating like, you might have a newsletter for your patients, but create a newsletter for your professional referrers as well. That is a little bit more technical, but it's still about your business, about your team, and just do it once a month. I've I've never had when we had a professional referrer database and we were sending newsletters to them, never had one ever unsubscribe from it.

Well, they they they want what's best for the kind of the the patients in the local area as well. Right? If you're making improvements in the health of the local community through better procedures, you know, better technology, something that they can, you know, help their patients live happier, healthier lives. And they're the one that referred to you to receive that care. They're part of that kind of chain of care, they can receive a little bit of the goodwill from the patient if they do that.

So I think that's keeping them in the loop and keeping them informed is a helpful thing, not only for the two physicians in concert, but also for those patients that benefit from the care.

Yeah. So I think some people think, oh, I don't want to annoy them. If you're annoying them, they will tell you, excuse me, but you're annoying me. And but and I've had some doctors where they've ever said to me, I I will never refer a patient to you. And there'd be numerous reasons.

It could be their brother's a podiatrist. Sometimes it could just be a personality thing. You meet them and they just you just don't get on. And you can you can feel it when you're talking to them. But don't but sometimes you'll meet somebody and you'll go, oh, you walk away and go, that was a 10 out of 10 meeting.

And they never refer a patient to you. And other times you can walk out going, I'm pretty sure the guy wanted to club me over the head and bury me in the back of the clinic. He does not like me. I could just got that vibe he doesn't like me. And eventually becomes your best referrer.

You never know. I mean, there can be some awkwardness, you know, when meeting anybody for first time, you know, especially during COVID times or, you know, during during the time we're living now. But at the same time, if you just kinda put in the work, you know, you show the value, you also, like, provide value to them, then, you know, sometimes it's gonna work out and sometimes it's not, but just kinda putting yourself out there is an important thing.

Yeah. And so a couple of things I'll quickly run through. One is the the practice manager is the golden goose. You need to like them and you need to get to know them. And there's numerous ways that you can actually do that, but you need to get them on-site.

If you get the practice manager on-site, then you can easily organize talks in the future to come in and talk to a group of doctors because they always have time set aside where different reps will come in and talk to them. Practice manager likes you, you will get those meetings really, really easy. Ask things like, what, you know, what coffee does the does the doctor drink? What coffee does she drink? And then every now and then, just rock up with a coffee, drop it in, and go again.

You don't even need to stay for a meeting. Just the idea is to become really friendly with them. If there was a a networking lunch that you were gonna go to, buy a couple of extra tickets and invite the practice manager. And the best thing is practice managers talk to other practice managers. So if you get a couple of them that think the sun shines out of your bum, then they will tell the others, do you know what?

That podiatrist down the road, they they are fantastic because they like to talk, and and they like to share good news and good information with each other as well.

Yeah. For sure. Like, getting within that network and providing value to them and just, you know, showing them that you're, you know, you're you're paying attention to those small details in the relationship also lets them know they're probably paying, you know, bullet you're paying attention to, you know, the care you're providing to patients as well.

Yeah. So a couple of final things. Information evenings always go used to go really well for us. An excuse to have a bit of a party at clinic, whether you just opened up a new clinic, whether you've done extensions, some new equipment, you've done a renovation, anything where you can think of a reason to bring people in. Now, like I said, COVID times, a little bit different, but they these will pass.

So someone could dig the heels in now and go, oh, I'm not gonna bloody do any of that stuff. You know? It's COVID. Yeah. Is Tyson and Jim stupid?

Sometimes I am, but not most of the times, I make sense. If it's not working now, that's fine. But it may, in two years' time, may be perfect for for where you are in your particular area. Couple other things is, yeah, third party events, golf days, you know, charity golf days. You know, you put put in a team of four players.

You pay for everything, and it might cost you $4,600 for the day to do it. But I tell you, the three professional referrers you invite that play that you spend four, five hours with, I tell you, that is a great way to get to know each other. Just brush up in your golf game. That's the only tip. Have a lesson beforehand.

Yeah. And just bring a lot of golf balls, a lot of golf balls, you know, just in case a few end up in the water, the crocs get after them.

You always tell them I'm yeah. Yeah. We had golf course up here. We remember ball going in, and I'm looking and going, it's right next to the crocodile. This is a poor Douglas.

And I go one of those extender things to get the ball out, and everyone's going, nah. Just let him have it. Said, yeah. Leave it there. So we left it there.

It's a good golf course. And another thing we did once, we we organized a corporate box at one of the rugby union matches. And I think at the time, it cost us $1,500. It was all the food, everything included, and we can invite 10 people. The 10 people we invited, within the next week, we had already generated $3,000 worth of work from from those 10 people.

And and I remember who those 10 people were, and they were some of their best referrers over the next five, ten years after that actual event. So it's just having a look at what's on, and I'll tell you right now, I love VIP corporate areas. And I know if I like them, I assume other people probably like them as well.

No. Think that's a huge point there. I think also, like we talked about previously about kind of podiatry podiatrist and podiatrist referrals. If there's not a monthly or a quarterly journal club in your local area, that's one way to get to know the other podiatrists in your local area that want to collaborate and want to work with other people. It's a value add.

You get different perspectives about different types of care. Just maybe even more than just a journal club. It's just case studies. It can be ways to kinda get build bonds and relationships with people in the local area. Also, you know, if you're looking to be, let's say, sports medicine podiatrist, or there's a certain area that you have a very big interest in, and you kinda know whether they're current referrers or not, who those people are.

Let's say I want to like see nothing but running patients. Well, if I'm in a big enough local area, maybe we, you know, get I I invite five or six of these potential referrers to present with me in a in a local event about, like, running injuries. Or, you know, there there's ways to create, you know, ways to network. Obviously, COVID times, you know, makes a little different, you know, with all these disclaimers with COVID. But at the same time, once things kinda get back to normal a bit, having this people are gonna be very, I think, into in person events.

I know that I'm Differently. Dying to, like, get down to The US and see some of my podiatry and resident school colleagues just to, like, hang out, go, you know, at some of these meetings. But in your local area as well, there's gonna be, I think, a a need for some of this kind of camaraderie in person. And if you're the meet you know, or the or you know, the meeting organizer for something that's very centric to like what you wanna do in your practice, like, that is that could be a huge catalyst for additional referrers, which like it might be a lot of work, you know, you know, like you talked about or corporate events might be a little bit of money upfront. But the work and the money you put upfront, you know, might create kind of a stream of referrals and professional relationships that might last a lifetime.

It definitely does. Like to for example, in Cairns here, we have Cairns Taipan in the National Basketball League. You can just book a corporate box for a one off game, and I think it's like $1,100. It's not a huge amount of money. Now some people might go, oh, that's too much.

It's not a lot of money when you can have six or eight people in the box. So it works out, you know, a hundred, hundred 50 a head. Yet, you might spend another 200 on food. But even if the whole night cost you $1,500, you know, I always always say, use the orthotic economy. How many pairs of orthotics do you need to get from those, you know, six or seven referrers that you've invited along to actually pay for that corporate box?

But I know people will drop $23,000 in other forms of advertising for, you know, for a one off thing or somebody might go for a couple of ads in ads somewhere, and they don't get much of a response from it. But this is how you nurture relationships is invest up front, get to know them, get to see what they like and and don't like, and at the same time, have a bit of fun. People enjoy going along to going along to events, especially if they like basketball, especially if they like football. You've you've to find yeah. They like playing playing golf.

So but just I just wanna go a couple of other things just before we wrap up because I'm just looking at the time. Over here in Australia, what I usually say to people, acknowledge Australia Day. Everybody celebrates Christmas. Everyone sends them cards and does other things. But who celebrates Australia Day?

Or in America, it might be American Independence Day, is celebrate that day. Do something leading up to it that is a celebration. We used to have bottles of wine that we did up Australia Day bottles of wine that we were going to deliver the day before Australia Day to our professional referrers. Went over a treat. And the last thing I I wanna say that to sort of wrap up is track your engagement.

Keep track of of where you're having contact with your referrers and also your referral numbers. And things that are going really well, when you do it, you go, wow. I've got a lot of referrals from that. Double down on it. Put more time and effort into it.

Things that aren't working so if you've sent all your professional referrers boxes of chocolates at Christmas time and it made no difference, stop sending boxes to chocolates at Christmas time. Pick another day, April 14. Pick any day, and just say, we're now celebrating the April 14 because nobody else is, and that will show that you're different. Give them the box of chocolates then, and it'll probably stand out. So that's I think I've I've run out of I've got so much more I could say, but I'll keep that for another time.

No. I think we've got plenty of podcasts, you know, coming down the future where you know, share some more of that knowledge and obviously, you know, different types of referrals are huge. So I'm sure we'll touch more of that subject in the future. But I really appreciate you sharing this knowledge with today, Tyson. And I'm looking forward to the next one with you.

Yeah. Me too, Jim. I look forward to it. I'll talk to you later.

Sounds great. Thanks for listening to Podiatry Marketing with Tyson Franklin and Jim McDaniel. Subscribe and learn more at Podiatry Marketing. That's the website address, podiatry.marketing.