Knowing When It's Time to Switch Podiatry Marketing Providers

You're listening to podiatry marketing, conversations on building a successful podiatry practice with Tyson Franklin and Jim McDannald.

Hi. I'm Tyson Franklin, and welcome back to this week's episode of Podiatry Marketing. With me, as usual, is big Jim Max. How are doing today, Jim?

Tyson, I'm doing fantastic. Life is good here in Montreal. I've got nothing to complain about.

Yes. Well, July is just I always say, winter, Cairns, nothing to complain about either. It's happy days. Happy days, sunshine, it's great. It's good to hear.

Okay. What are we talking about today? We should just dive in because normally we have a bit of banter. Oh, actually, before we dive in, I wanna point out, I wanna ask a question because you went and checked out a few episodes back. You said if a certain bear runs at you, you zigzag, you can get away

from it.

Call me you're gonna call me out like this. Yeah. And you said you check the facts and

Nothing but lies and myths about how to escape a bear. Everything I've said everything I've read since that says that you have no chance no how to no matter how you run to escape a bear. So either you know, if it's a certain type of bear you gotta punch it in the face or try to gouge its eyes out. If if it's a different type of bear, which I don't remember if it's a grizzly or a brown bear, you need to lay down and act dead. So, yeah, I don't definitely do your own research on this.

So I I apologize to all those listeners that were eaten by bears or alligators since the last time we were I mentioned that on the show.

I know. I hate it when we lose listeners because of because of poor facts. We haven't checked our facts. But I do know if you chase by a crocodile, zigzag. Because they they can't change direction very very well.

Okay. Don't punch him in the face.

You'll lose a Definitely not. You'll you'll definitely lose a hand.

Okay. Now, we've given out some interesting facts for everybody. What are we talking about today?

Yeah. So today, we're gonna dive into one of the kind of the questions I get asked sometimes by colleagues or people that come on to my website. It's, you know, when when does someone know that it's time to switch their podiatry marketing providers? You know, this is you know, sometimes people get into utilizing a provider and they've been with them for years, but and they just know it's not working right or maybe they've outgrown. You know, they started with kind of a a generalist marketing firm and they're they feel like they have they built a decent relationship, but, you know, there's there's definitely some key signs or some ways of knowing that it is time to consider what your other options are out there if you're looking to grow your practice or develop niche practice in a way that really is visible to all your local patients that you wanna have come in and treat in your clinic.

Okay. So you reckon when you're dealing with something, there's a couple of things that you can identify pretty easily that will just let you know, maybe it's time to change.

Yeah. There's some like super key signs of kind of, I would say, either ineffective marketing or you just know that that relationship isn't working for you. The first being kind of stagnant growth. Just if you're not getting kind of new patients in the door or you're trying to market specific types of procedures or trying to treat a certain niche of patients and they're not coming in, it's a clear sign that things have kind of stagnated. Maybe you've had some discussions with that marketing agency or that consultant and either they're, you know, it's kind of falling on deaf ears or, you know, it's been two quarters in a row and there's been really no either plan or execution that you feel like they're making an effort in a way or just it's not yielding the results you're looking for.

That's the kind of the first thing as far as one of the signs to be aware of is just you know, you're kind of stagnating and kind of growing the practice the way you want to.

Yeah. So you want more ingrown toenails. You want more orthotic patients. And two, three months down the track, you're getting less or you're not getting there's no growth at all. It's just exactly the same.

Well, you're getting less or there's just no, like, clear planning. Right? Like, you've had you feel like you've told this agency or the consultant, you know, month after month for three months or six months, and there's no coming back and saying, hey. Yes. We, you know, we agree that you would like to have more of those, here's step one or what we're gonna try to do.

Or here's the you know, we tried step one and here's step two. So not not not not everything is gonna work when it comes to marketing, so it is important not to, like, be overly harsh. Yeah. If they're deflecting or coming up with excuses or not really listening, would say is a big thing. It's it's really really important that you know, that's that's kind of a bit of a red flag or the first red flag when it comes to some signs of kind of ineffective marketing.

And you should have probably some really good open lines of communication with them as well?

Yeah. Exactly. Like I talked about a little bit in that previous zone is like the open lines of communications is huge and poor communication can take different forms. Sometimes it's not listening or it can sometimes be they're focused on other metrics that you're not necessarily you don't really care about. Let's say sometimes when I work with clients and with podiatry clinics they say you know their previous agency always talked about you know clicks or they talked about page views, but to be honest podiatrists don't really care about those kind of metrics they care about making appointments, you know, getting that Bums on seats.

Bums on seats Yeah. Doing more of those types of procedures, you know, the numbers of those procedures. So also, you know, what is the response time? You know, obviously, your relationship is important and you wanna be valued. You know, if there's something that's drastically gone wrong, maybe, you know, getting in touch with you after, you know, six, twelve hours or twenty four hours is pretty normal with a a marketing relationship.

But, you know, if they're taking days or weeks to return emails or address very specific questions you have for them, that's a red flag because, you know, you're kind of outsourcing the marketing and the visibility and the brand of your practice to someone else and then if they're not willing to communicate with you at a reasonable rate, it just leads to kind of things dragging out. Right? So if it takes them a week to receive an email and then maybe they have to forward that someone else in the company, it just you know, it can kind of lead to a kind of a dysfunctional relay where people aren't getting back in touch with you and it takes a long time to you know accomplish some of these objectives that you have and also it's you know, it's just kind of inadequate support of the provider, right? You know, you you're paying agencies or consultants money to to kind of be available and to kind of be kind of listening to your needs. If they're not communicating at a cadence that's right or speaking to you in the way that you understand because sometimes, you know, if they're so far down the marketing rabbit hole, like I talked about, they're not kind of they don't know what it's like to be in a clinic.

You know, if they have they're taking care of air conditioning repairs or other types of home services, they may not know what you're looking for. Obviously leads and new patients, they can understand that. But if they're not speaking your level or they're wasting your time because one of the reasons they're hiring or outsourcing this is to hopefully save you time, but also bring in those new patients to the door. So if they're causing you to spend more time in it than you would really want to, that's also a red flag.

Yeah. But look, yeah, we've mentioned it before that if you go to a company that has never worked with a podiatrist before, has no understanding what podiatrist is, it's gonna be difficult for them to help put together some form of strategy. To me, I don't know how they can put a strategy together when all they're going by is, yeah, okay. You might tell them a bit about podiatry, but it's great if they've worked with podiatrists before, or they are a podiatrist so they actually understand what it or you or both, Jim. You are a podiatrist, and you work with podiatrists.

So you can basically do both. But some of them just outdated with the way that they do things. It's like, this is just the way we've always done it. So they don't change and adapt.

Yeah. There's some people that just kinda employ outdated strategies. You know, I've worked with other clinics in the past or they were working with marketing agencies, and they're trying to treat it was like 1995 again, right, where you could have kind of spammy or scammy links linking back to your website. You could do these kind of like dishonest kind of tactics to try to rank higher in Google. But, like everything else in life, it evolves over time.

And if you're utilizing these tactics that Google is now kind of upon, it could really have a negative impact on your online visibility, which is then going to transfer over to a lack of patients coming in the door. So you really want to make sure that and sometimes you know podiatry clinic owners are busy right so they don't necessarily know when people are doing this. So that's why it sometimes makes sense for folks to consider getting an outside audit or view of what's going on. It's not that you don't trust who you're working with, but if you've been with someone for five or for ten years and you're not sure what they're doing or know, how things are changing as far as online marketing goes. I think, you know, COVID and the kind of everyone kind of going online during the COVID times kind of opened a lot of people's eyes up to, you know, what can be done online.

You know, you have video. You know, you can make appointments. There's a lot that can be done online these days. Obviously, the care you provide in person is hugely important, but, you know, as as we kind of get into this digital age, everybody's got a smartphone. Everybody's searching for things on these smartphones.

So you wanna make sure that you're not using these outdated strategies and you're working with the provider that is staying on top of the latest trends so you and your practice can be, you know, seen as kind of the go to expert in your local area.

But I think that applies to every profession. Yeah. Would you like to see a podiatrist that's been out for twenty years but has never attended anything in twenty years other than tick boxes say that they have? You know, they just their thinking would be outdated on treating particular yeah. Certain problems.

So to me, I think a marketing provider is exactly the same thing. If they're not staying up to date and utilizing the the latest tools available to them, they're just thinking, oh, no. Well, it worked for us in 1995. Why should we change now? Yeah.

Let's put you in the yellow pages. Then I think yeah. That that's a bit extreme.

No. It's but, like, you're talking about the right thing though too. Because, it's sometimes it is these, you know, these technologies that are important, but it's also the matching the right channels to whoever your patient population is. We've talked about this multiple times on past episodes. But, you know, if you're treating people over the age of 70 and you have an agency say hey we're going to be on TikTok and Instagram and all these things and you're in a like you're in Florida or someplace there's a lot of seniors and you're doing a lot of senior care, there's going to be a mismatch there right?

And you want to make sure that you're connect you're kinda using that right channel for the ideal patient you're trying to connect with. So, yeah, sometimes it is keeping you up to date with the technologies and and those things, but it's also just having knowing which channel is right for the type of patient you wanna bring into your practice.

Okay. Now, I've heard the term before and I've we spoke a bit before I think when we talk about sunk costs. But sometimes people will they've invested so much time and energy into something that they feel they've got to keep going. Or otherwise, they've they've just wasted all that time and money.

Yeah. Exactly. So you with the sunk sunk cost fallacy, like you said, you maybe you've built a website with a provider, you know, ten years ago. You've been working with them. They've done changes.

They've kind of be been your go to person for an extended period of time. And, you know, you just you're kind of you feel like you've committed a lot of time and effort to that relationship to build up your website. And, obviously, you might still have a lot of goodwill with that person. You know, it'll be funny a lot of times when I talk to podiatrists that are you know, I do an audit on or they just ask me for advice. You know, it's you know, they've that local person I met at the Chamber of Commerce or

Yeah.

You know, their their brother-in-law or a friend of a friend built their website. And there's some kind of you know, social tie to the person that's providing their digital marketing services. And I'm not saying that that's a bad thing but you also have to think about you know where you want to go and what you're trying to do in your practice and is that the right person to kind of take you to the next level when you're ready for it. You know if you're just getting started in practice and just need a basic website you know, maybe your brother-in-law is the perfect person to kinda help you get started at a reasonable price and can kinda get you off on the right step, know, if you were to say. But at the same time, there are, know, five, ten ten years down the road, this is a a side project for them.

Know, sometimes you'll find that as well. You know, they they they have someone build a website that's not really minding the store. They kind

of like almost kind of like

a set it and forget it kind of you know relationship with their marketing provider. And like I said, you can get away with that for the first two or three years maybe but you know things evolve, technology change, the way that Google ranks pages changes, the way that people want to see and find your practice changes. And if you're not keeping up with those changes, you know, you're you're falling behind and it's normal that, you know, you have goodwill with the people that built the website, They've done good by you to start off with. And considering I see a lot of kind of it takes there's a bit of inertia there. People it takes time to go look for a new provider.

You know, their current website is okay. You know, even though it has, you know, footprints on the sand or feet hanging off the the edge of a dock, like, I don't really like that, but it's gonna take me five, ten hours to find somebody and then that person's gonna charge, you know, twice as much or three times as much. There's always kind of there's reasons not to consider or let allow yourself to think about what the benefits could be by kind of putting these roadblocks ahead of you. But that's what the kind of the sunk cost fallacy does. It just kind of it gives you some kind of built in roadblocks about why you don't worry about that right now, know, like you don't have to worry about there's other things.

Obviously being a clinic owner, right, you've got take care of your patients, take care of your staff, you know, mind the business, and marketing sometimes sits on the back burner. But, you know, if you're if you're not keeping your eye on the ball or moving it forward, there's gonna be somebody else in your local area that's going to be doing so whether it be a podiatrist or a physical therapist or a physio or a chiropractor or a podorathist. Someone is going to be progressive in moving forward. So if you're not moving forward, you're falling behind. So it's really one of those things where, yes, the sunk cost fallacy is a is a big deal because it kind of stops people from searching out their best options.

But I think it is one of those things that can be overcome by, you know, actively pursuing a little bit of knowledge and maybe understanding who the experts are in these areas.

Yeah. I like to when we're talking about this particular topic with sunk costs, I like to relate it to buying a motor vehicle. When you buy a car, you might spend $50,000 to buy a car. And then in, yeah, five, ten years time, that car's only worth $10,000. You can't keep thinking it's a $50,000 car.

It is now a $10,000 car. Well, second you drive it off the lot

though, right, it drops like, I don't know, 20% or something. That's what they say.

Yeah. I think so. But but it's one of those things that you then take have that $10,000 car that might be ten years old. You go and buy a new car. Okay?

You've got to invest more money into it. But when you get in that new car, you can tell as soon as you sit in it, as soon as you drive it, the gadgets, what it what that car can do that the other car cannot that can't do, and no matter what you tried to do, it can't do it. And I think when it comes to websites and some of the marketing stuff like that, it's what your website did five, ten years ago cannot do what the new websites do. And and people, as soon as they get into your website or into a new account, they know they didn't receive an old one than new one.

No. A %, you know, kind of it is what that value can get from the website or from the marketing that you're doing. It's not necessarily that you have this shiny thing, but what is the how does it function? What is the purpose of having that website? Right?

When you have a custom built niche website that's directed at the ideal patients you want to bring into your practice, it does gangbusters compared to a copy pasted website of the exact same thing created by a company that has a thousand of the same websites around the country. So patients will see that. When they see it, they'll react to it much differently than your cookie cutter website. So I think that's a good point, Tyson.

For some people though, making the transition to a new provider, and you sort of touched on it a little bit, but sometimes people look at that as, oh, it's just too much work. I'll just stick with what I've already got. They're doing an okay job, but sometimes you just gotta you just have to do it.

Yeah. I think somebody just have to bite the bullet to see what's out there. Right? And I think the best way to approach it initially is just doing some research and due diligence. You know like you can obviously search on Google, you can talk to colleagues, look around and see who's providing digital marketing services for podiatrists.

Obviously I'm a little biased since I do that myself but you know whoever whoever you're looking at you you know whoever's websites you think look great you should definitely try to get in touch with those clinic owners and say hey like I saw that you have this website you're working with x y z company you know you're working with podiatry growth What is it really like to work with Jim? Or what is it really like to work with this other company? And get a general sense of like, you know, if you if you email them or text them, know, how quickly do they respond? Is it is it that day? Is it that hour?

Is it a week from then? You really want to know what you're getting yourself into. So you know just kind of starting a few steps of research you know a little bit at a time can really help you evaluate you know potential marketing providers in a way that you know doesn't seem overwhelming but you're kind of moving towards that functional website that's going to attract your ideal patients as opposed to that kind of website you started out with. So I think it's that research and due diligence portion is that kind of first step that everyone should consider once they feel like you know, we talked about some of those red flags previously. If you're starting to feel one of those red flags come to the forefront, doing a little bit of research and due diligence is kind of that first step to to move forward with.

Yeah. I do like the idea what you said. Go and look at websites. If you like what you see, talk to the person. Yeah.

Talk to the podiatrist. I I don't think there'd be any podiatrist if you contacted him and said, hey. I was on your website. You know, I live in another state. Can I ask you some questions about it?

I don't think anyone would say no. Just wouldn't happen.

Yeah. And I I think it's I think it's also important to, like, look at the web their website from the view of what a patient would be looking for. Right?

Yeah.

Do you have let's say, like, you just imagine yourself as that heel pain patient or the ingrown toenail patient, and you just arrive on the website, try to like get into the shoes of a patient and you you liked the look of the website but how functional is it? Can you make an appointment? Can you get some information about what this clinic treats and doesn't treat? Those are the kind of things that will help you know if it's it's a good feel or maybe a good fit for your own clinic website.

Okay. And what about the transition? So if you already have your website, okay, you're now talking to somebody else. I think it's the transition part that sometimes worries people as well.

No. It definitely could be a concern. I would say that probably 90% of the websites these days are built on WordPress when it comes to the types of websites people have. If not, there's definitely ways to make that transition easier. But you want to know you know, like that's why I think it's important kind of in the transition plan not just to jump from one provider to the other.

It can be really helpful to have an audit or kind of a marketing assessment with that other you know the people that you're looking at. Maybe you narrow down to like three different providers or two and you know if somebody has the ability to provide you kind of okay, here's what it'd be like to work with me, here's here's what we offer and here's how we kind of make that transition. The transition plan is really really important because you know sometimes you have a contract. I would say that sometimes the clinics that you know the the marketing providers that clinics are currently working with, they can be pretty restrictive and not always super happy to see you go. So maybe you have to give them thirty to sixty days notice or the contract ends at a certain term.

They if you don't own your domain name or you don't own the hosting, there's a lot of kind of small details that have to be worked into this transition plan to make sure that it's as smooth as possible and that you have a minimal amount of downtime for your website and other channels. Because like I said, know, most of the people I've worked with when I transitioned to me from other marketing providers have been overall pretty helpful, but I know there are some growth platforms and for a while there there was PatientPop which turned into I think it's called TBR now who used to sometimes own all of the content that was on clinics websites along with domain names and wasn't always to transition that stuff over to the individual clinic owner. So these are just things to be aware of if you are considering a transition, understanding what that process would be like when you talk to potential mark new marketing providers.

Yeah. And I think all the podiatrists could do is just put your podiatry hat on. And if a patient came to you and said, can you send all my medical records to the guy to the podiatrist across the road? How how happy are you when you hear that? Are you like, yeah.

Not a problem, mister Smith. We'll just get that all for you. I hope you enjoy yourself. Straight away, you're like, why? And and it's not something you just go you don't also, you just go, let's make that a priority day to make sure we got all those records together and we get it straight over.

You go, yeah. We could we'll get that done later today or maybe tomorrow. No rush. So I think this can happen as well with past providers.

No. For sure. It it definitely is there are some relatable things between marketing and and owning a clinic and, you know, life, kind of the transfer of patients.

Life in general.

For sure.

Okay. Say you've made the move. How important is it to sort of monitor or evaluate what they're actually doing? Because if if you've jumped from one place and you've gone to another, you probably should be keeping an eye on it. They're they're they're taking for a ride.

Like we talked about a little bit earlier today, I think the it all starts with understanding what the expectations are and developing solid forms of communication. Like I said, we know through an audit or through marketing evaluation, you can kind of work together and get to know each other and see if it's a good fit. Also, you know, what is the reporting regimen gonna be like? Is it gonna be once every quarter, once every six months, once every year? Like, how often are you gonna be in contact with this provider?

I think at the beginning, obviously, there's a lot of back and forth that has to be done in order to make sure that, you know, expectations are set at a reasonable level, but also there has to be, you know, either forms or easy ways to exchange information that'll make it easy for you as the clinic the clinic owner and also for someone like myself like as the marketing provider. So there is a kind of a cadence of information exchange that can really help kind of build trust and, you know, really set the objectives to have a successful first month, three months, six months, and a year. But, you know, we're kind of developing a shared goals, what the metrics are

Yeah.

That will help you kind of evaluate both sides of you know how things are performing and just making kind of ensuring this kind of continuous improvement because you know Rome wasn't built in a day and a you know a good website that really speaks to your ideal patients. It takes some back and forth between what the podiatrist and what the clinic wants and what you know the expertise and what the abilities are of the marketing provider because it is one of those things, is a team effort. I think sometimes you know the responsibility lies on both ends, it has to be like an open exchange of information and ideas, but it has to be kind of a nice know, kind of being in rhythm rhythm with each other in ways that make sense because if they're the best marketing provider on the earth and you know, it it takes you a week or two weeks to get back to them with a change you want or, you know, or on the other side, if they you know, you you ask for a change and it takes them a month to update a word on the website or the hours of your clinic on Google Business profile, you know, that's that's not gonna lead to a great initial bond or relationship building between you two.

So it's one of those things where there has to be some understanding at the beginning that you're kind of filling each other out and seeing what it's like, Maybe not unlike dating or getting to know a partner. But then over time as you build trust, the marketing provider will understand you and your practice better and you'll understand how that marketing provider can really provide value to your clinic and to the the patients in your local area.

Yeah. I remember the first website I got done and the people I had doing it. Anytime I wanted to change, it only took a week and a half to get them to do it. And I see they go, How bad how slow are you guys? But I remember when people were putting the social platforms onto their websites.

But prior to them being there, all of sudden, you could put on Facebook and all that. And then I think all of sudden, could have a Google link. You have a little Google email and they click on it. They used to go to your Google page, which doesn't exist anymore. And so I remember contacting these guys and saying, I need a Google link on my website.

So this is going back a long time ago. I need a Google link on my website. Not a problem. Week went past. How long is it gonna take to put the the Google link on the website?

Yep. They first said, yeah. It's done. I went to my website, and on the bottom, instead of actually having the logo that you click on it, they wrote Google link. And that was that that day that I decided I need somebody else because they just one, they were slow.

They were not hearing me, and they they I think they were just out of touch with what was actually happening. So I left. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, that that's a that's a red flag and that's a it's a good reason that you, you know, sought out a different marketing expert to help you build your business.

That's a terrible red flag. So do you wanna re you've covered a lot. Do you wanna recap what you've taken over? Just go through the points. So put it all together.

Yeah. So yeah, so I'd say like we talked about kind of the first point being, you know, there's definitely gonna be signs. You know, obviously, it's not necessarily a fun thing to have to switch marketing providers, but, you know, it's it's worse to kind of ignore some of these red flags whether it be stagnant growth, poor communication, or them using outdated strategies. You just have to be aware that that's happening. And then the next step is to take action.

Right? So, you know, when it comes to, you know, the kind of sunk cost fallacy, it can be you might have emotional attachment to whoever's previously provided your marketing. Maybe you have familiar relationship or maybe it's a friend of a friend. But you really need to kind of assess the current value of what your website's doing or not doing to make sure that it's being utilized in a way that shows all the great care you provide to your ideal patients. And that takes an expert and someone that knows what they're doing in the field of podiatry to make that happen.

And last but not least, it's important when you make the transition to a new provider that you kind of have some steps to work through. So once you identify red flags, understand that there's going to be a little bit of pain or nurture to get over. How do you make this transition? It's by researching, doing some due diligence about who else is out there and who can provide you with that kind of ideal platform to get out in front of your ideal patients. You know, developing a transition plan and then, you know, monitoring, evaluating, and developing strong communication habits with your marketing provider is really going to set you up for future success.

So I think you know that's kind of a good place to end it today but if anyone has any questions obviously like I'm you know I provide these services myself but at the same time I may not be the right fit for everybody, but I'm happy to in the future you know, if you email the show or email me jimpodiatrygrowth dot com, I'm happy to help you know, put you in the right direction or give you some feedback that that might be helpful for you to to kind of build the type of website or online presence that's beneficial to your practice.

No. I think that's a really good comment what you just said in there too about you may not be a right the right fit for everybody. You don't wanna work with every podiatrist. There's certain podiatrist that you will just fit perfectly with, and they will get really good results. And there'll be other ones where you may not, but they won't know until they talk to you.

Exactly. So okay, big Jim. I think we'll leave it there. This has been fun.

Yeah. It's a good time, and thanks for the conversation, Tyson.

Okay. Talk to you next week. Bye.

Alright. Bye now. Thanks for listening to Podiatry Marketing with Tyson Franklin and Jim McDaniel. Subscribe and learn more at Podiatry Marketing. That's the website address, podiatry.marketing.