Invest in Solutions vs. Pay for Services

You're listening to podiatry marketing, conversations on building a successful podiatry practice with Tyson Franklin and Jim McDannald.

Hi. I'm Tyson Franklin, and welcome back to this week's episode of Podiatry Marketing. With me today is my cohost, Big Jim Mac. How are you doing today, Jim?

Fantastic, Tyson. You know, feeling bigger and better than ever. So

I think every time I see it, are you getting a bigger chair? You're getting taller on the camera.

Yeah. Maybe the beard's getting a little bit bigger. I don't know. We'll we'll see.

If I could grow one like that. You you probably have what? Haven't shaved for twenty four hours, and you've probably got that.

Yes. That rugged, unkempt look that I just no. It's it's been a couple days for sure.

Yeah. Got this friend that we know, Som. And when we're in Arizona, he shaved off his beard because we were doing this spy craft stuff. So he had he's changing his just how his his appearance shaved his beard off, and his wife just jokingly said, oh, don't worry. It'll it'll be back by dinner tonight.

It just it just grows it so fast. So anyway, anyway, we're not here to talk about grooming today even though if people want grooming tips, please let us know. Send us an email. So Jim, what's what's today's topic?

Today, we're gonna be talking about investing in solutions versus paying for services.

Oh. This is a tricky one. I'm looking for okay. Where where are we starting on this?

Yeah. So I'd say like, you know, this this starts because this is something I hear a lot whenever people reach out to me. Obviously, I'm someone that provides marketing services. Know, I like to think of more like salute like kind of custom made solutions that really help people, you know, identify what they try they're trying to achieve in their practice. So it kinda starts by I I'll get an email from someone that's either listened to this podcast, found me through Google, and they'll say, hey, do you do do you build websites?

Do you do you write blog posts? Because I need someone that does this thing.

Yeah.

And while these are things that I do, I really categorize when people are asking for that, they're really asking like, do you do this service? And I don't think it's a bad question, but I think sometimes there's a lot of there's kind of like some baggage that comes along. You know, like, tell me your price. Like, how much do you do blog posts for? Usually kind of comes from an era where they, you know podiatrists are really great about taking care of feet and ankles orthotics.

Some are knowledgeable about marketing. Yeah. But some podiatrists have, like, I would say, a surface level understanding of what marketing is or like digital marketing is. And, you know, they know that this tactic is supposed to do something, so they need to go find a person to do that tactic. So that's where it kind of starts off of instead of, you know, what what's all available out there, and what's gonna work to really you know, what's the overall plan or the options I have to kind of achieve a clinical goal as opposed to, like, you know, what what is this one service you can provide for me?

So that's kinda where we're gonna kinda tackle today.

So you sorta when when someone comes to talk to you, like, you'll say that they they they think they so it's almost like they want one thing, but, you know, they need something else. So they oh, I want SEO, but you get I know you need a bigger solution than just just look at your SEO or just doing a new website or just patching up something.

Right. Exactly. So I think sometimes podiatrists have, like, a surface level understanding of digital marketing, but also it comes from maybe they had one or two previous, like, marketing agencies. Right?

Yeah.

And those were the services that they were provided by those agencies, and maybe they're not happy with them anymore or wanna try something different. So they know they need those things. But what sometimes happen is that, like, if that unless that agency had, like, a really comprehensive and, like, you know, coordinated plan that is, like, really focused on a clinical outcome, whether it's seeing new kind of pay you know, new specific kind of patient, maybe it's, you know, doing, like, fee for service instead of insurance plans. You know, it's very rare that it's tied to actually to a specific goal that the clinic sees as important. You know, it's always like, get 50 new patients this month, or it's like it's very like I would say it's almost like kind of a FOMO, like, I'm selling you on these types of services to get you a lot of these things.

But it may not be exactly the thing the podiatry clinic ultimately wants if they could say if they took time to think about what they want as a clinic. So that's kind of that first step is like a little bit of knowledge can be kind of dangerous. You've heard of blogging. You've heard of Google Ads. You've heard of all of these tactics, and you just want that thing.

But you're kind of overlooking that it has to be kind of a comprehensive plan. So some people don't wanna spend time planning or really do the hard work of thinking about what they need before they jump in and start taking action.

Yeah. And I think that happens a lot because I've mentioned to you before pressing record that sometimes I'll get a podiatrist that'll approach me and say, oh, I need more more. I want more patients, more new patients. I go, okay. And they go I go, why?

And they go, well, we've been we've been stagnant for the last three to five years. The clinic hasn't really grown. I've gone, okay. So do you really need more new patients so that you can treat them poorly as well? Wouldn't it be better to try and find out what's happened with your existing patients?

Pat tidy that whole thing up and find the solution to the problem. And then when you bring on your new patients, you're going to be able to service them far far better, and and it's gonna be better for your business. So it's the same thing. They and I think, like you said, there's so many marketing places out there that'll say, hey. Download this thing here, and you'll attract 45 new patients next month.

No. I think that's a perfect example. I think, you know, it's it it feels better to take action in some ways. Right? Like, you feel like you're being proactive.

You're doing things.

But Yeah.

It's really that level of discovery of having, you know, one or two conversations. It doesn't have to be months of, like, discovery. It's like one or two, like, in-depth conversations. And a lot of these questions are why questions. You know?

Like, why do you want more blog posts? You know? Why like, why do you want this thing? And a lot of times, we'll be like, well, that's what I heard that works. You know?

Or like, that's what I read. That's what x y z marketing agency told me that I needed. So now I'm gonna go find, like, the cheapest way to get that done, that that service. And while, like, you know, I know some people starting off, you know, are price sensitive, and I'm not trying to say that, like, you have to spend, like, tens of thousands of dollars on this, but at the same time, like, unless you're asking why, like, why do you want more blog posts? Well, I want more specific type of patient.

It doesn't take, like, 10 whys. Maybe it's two to four why questions to get down to the meat of actually what you're trying to achieve. And then once you figure out that that level of discovery, then it's time to, like, not just jump into, like, okay. I know what I want now. I'm just gonna go do one a one off thing.

Right? Like, it's not like, I know I want more sports medicine patients, so, like, let's just go do this one thing and then ignore your website, your social, like, all the things that you're already doing. It has to be kind of a a coordinated effort.

Yeah. No. It makes a lot of sense. And I hope anyone that's listening to this understands what it is that we're saying, that you you can't just everything you do in marketing is is a big picture to it. And coming back to, you know, your why not why you have the business, but what is it that you're trying to actually achieve with every action that you're actually doing.

So it was something that I've been talking about lately with a few people as well. And a lot of times, you can have a million ideas too, but it's really getting clear on what is the objective that you you're trying to get. Once you know the objective, then there might be 10 different things you can do, and then it's prioritize what is going to give you the best impact to get what it is that you want, and then it's taking action. But you there's a big thought process first instead of whereas a lot of people are just jumping in and taking action. I need a blog post.

So they'll write a blog post or, Jim, you wrote it for me. Tyson, write me a blog. But and that's the action, but they've they've jumped from they've missed everything else and gone straight to action.

Yeah. It's kinda like finding that purpose or that driving motivation that gets people excited about, you know, is it possible to be a sports medicine podiatrist in your local area? Is it possible to have a thriving wound care clinic? A lot of times, that's gonna be yes. But until you kinda, like, break that down, like you said, like, get down to the core level of why you're practicing in the first place, you know, what's possible in your local area, and tying that to, like, some, you know, definitive goals or objectives.

You know, like, you could write a a million blog posts. You could do, you know, $5,000 a month of Google Ads, and you're still not gonna be happy in practice. Right? So it's like, you have to kind of like have that baseline of what you wanna do, why you wanna do it. And then like you said, you know, just because, you know you know, once you have that plan in place, maybe it is gonna be, like, something that is multiyear or it's gonna take multiple steps.

It's not just like we you create a plan and then just do, like, you know, 10 things, and it's gonna be thousands of dollars. There's ways to implement it in a in a cost effective, smart way that's gonna get the most kind of bang for your buck. If you're not like you said, if, you know, if and maybe it's not blog posts. Maybe it's something else, but it is having that, you know, being very objective as far as what's gonna move the needle based off of kind of what's currently working. And that's the thing that's also tough about any type of marketing or digital things is that it's always changing.

It's not a set it and forget it solution for here's the cookie cutter five things you have to do, and then it's gonna, you know, generate all of this extra revenue for your practice. You have to be able to adapt to your market, adapt to the technology, adapt to what you wanna do, adapt to, like, what patients are willing to pay you for. You know, there's a lot of kind of ways to, you know, test and do things. And like you said but it does start from this kind of, like, creating kind of a coordinated plan instead of just, like, firing off one off, you know, one off tactics just because it feels good to take action. You know, you've through 15 different things you don't feel like work because there was never like, you know, the the core of the according to plan or a a clear objective before you kinda got started with things.

Yeah. I think I've mentioned on the podcast before. I'm not sure when I was talking about bank robbers. Have I mentioned that? About robbing a bank.

A little bit. Yeah. Yeah. It's good metaphor, though.

Yeah. So when it when it comes to robbing a bank, you can just you can be the amateur bank robber who puts a a really crappy stocking over their face and bolts in, and they're gonna go for the till because they're just going for that low hanging fruit. It's really simple because that's what everybody else does when they're robbing a bank. They bolt in there, and they just go for the easy stuff. But the money is in the vault.

It's sitting down, and it's strategically planning out what it is you wanna do, and what it what what is the big goal that you're after? And then it all comes back to just capacity. How much can you carry out? So it what you're saying is the same sort of thing where don't just keep chasing the till. You know, the the the the bank till draws is sit down with you and work out how can we really rob that bank properly.

It sounds terrible,

doesn't It sounds terrible, but at the same time, like, it's it is one of those things where it it there's so much information being put out there about marketing. Right? Like, it's not it's something people are being cold called about, cold emailed about. You know, they hear like I hear that, you know, x y z tactic works. Like, I hear blog posts are the magic.

I hear that creating five different websites each for each of my practice location is the magic. You know, it's always one of these things. It's like, it it can unless you're in a day to day, you get bombarded with these things, and you feel like, oh, that's the thing that's gonna work. But, you know, there's only certain things that work at certain times. And if you try to do all of the things without having to understand either what works or what your objectives are, you're just gonna be kind of spraying and praying, and you won't really know what's kind of moving the needle.

So it is one of those things by having you know, working with someone who can create kind of a coherent plan for you is a good place to start. But, like, it's e a lot of people just wanna jump over that, though. And I don't think that's necessarily it's not really the podiatrist's fault. It's because it's kind of the way that a lot of agencies sell it to people. Like, whenever I work with someone, it's very clear before we do any kind of action, we're gonna have kind of a discovery or an audit or, you know, we'll kinda, like, assess what you've currently done with your website, your marketing, your Google Ads.

I'm not perfect, but I think, you know, at least, getting a baseline of what's either working or not working and what people are doing really helps people kind of take a quick breath to see, okay, these are the things that I've done. Like, are there photos on my website that shows me doing the type of care I wanna provide? As opposed to like, I've said it a thousand times, like footprints on the beach. It's like, is that who you are? The beach podiatrist?

If you're the beach podiatrist, more power to you. But like, having stuff that's relevant for the specific type of patients you want to attract on your website. Like, I love your line. Does your website If you're being convicted of a crime, is there enough evidence on your website to convict you of that thing? And that's powerful.

But I don't necessarily It's not really the podiatrist's fault, though, because they're getting bombarded by it. This is the way people sell to them. Right? Like, we're gonna sell you the package that's, like, SEO and website, and you need these, like, these specific things. But those come after the discovery or the plan that's really based off the objectives that people wanna make.

But I don't like I said, it's people are being sold to that way. So it's not necessarily the podiatrist's fault, but it's just like they're used to, like, you know, buying services and not really, like, investing time and money in getting towards a solution as opposed to services.

Yeah. And I think it's one of those things where they will they'll see what one podiatrist is doing. And just because it works for one podiatrist doesn't mean it's gonna work for somebody else. They they gotta yeah. They they could be in a completely different area.

And and I mentioned this to someone recently too when I mentioned before about, like, use this email technique or these text messages and you get 44, yeah, new patients tomorrow. The thing they don't tell you is, one, in Australia, it's illegal. You can't send emails and text messages to people who are not your patients already to try and get them become a patient. You just can't do that crap. So what they're not telling people is, no.

What we're gonna do is get 44 existing patients coming back. They also don't tell you that they only work with businesses that are turning over a certain amount of money because they know you need to have a certain amount of patience for this tactic to actually work. They also don't tell you how many do they burn in the process of getting that 44, how many did they annoy. On the surface, it may look enticing and people jump jump all over it, but when you dig deep into it, it's it's so superficial. It can actually be damaging to your business long term.

I think that's a great point. I think you really have to be, I think all the things I try to use whenever I'm working with podiatrists is, what are the things that are gonna grow the trust in your clinic, kind of project a positive image and grow the reputation that you have. I think those things like reviews, showing people that you're a good member of the local community, and really having a helpful, useful website, things that make, you know, people have kind of good patient interactions with with anything that is you know, has your image or, you know, is is kind of part of your online presence is hugely important because, like you said, if you do something scammy, like and I, like, I'd I'm I'm not maybe a rare marketer, but, like, I I would feel bad if I was resulting to those tactics. You know? I'd like, even when I you know, besides you know, I do things to market my own business, you know, as podiatry growth, like that I'll be proud of.

Let alone being kind of given the reputation and trust of a clinic that I'm working with, I don't take those things lightly. And like you said, sometimes, you know, if someone's trying to squeeze out 40 patients or 50 patients, you know, that first month to, like, you know, to hook, you know, a podiatrist, maybe they see you as a number because a lot of these, you know, providers are really about the numbers and more about, churning through people as opposed to building long term mutually beneficial relationships, not only between the podiatrist and the marketer or the person providing the marketing solutions or services, but also with the patient. Because if you lose trust with them, you know, you're it's like it's like a double it's a double whammy because you're you know, it's just it's it's bad long it's a bad long term play all around.

Bad juju. Exactly. But it's very different to a a patient walking into your clinic and saying, yeah. I've got really bad ankles. I just came in because I want you to recommend a pair of joggers for me.

And the pedagogy will go, well, you know, let's we need to do more of an assessment. No. No. No. My friend got this pair of joggers.

I don't know what the brand was, but I thought if I come and see you because these ankles are really, really bad, that you could tell me what shoe I I should wear to fix my problem.

Right.

And then now the podiatrist gets sucked into that and recommend a shoe. The patient buys it and doesn't help because there was more to it than just buying a pair of shoes. This is how podiatrists are gonna look at their marketing. Is they can come to you and say, Jim, write me some blog articles. You write the blogs, and they go, didn't bloody work, Jim.

You can't write. And they're blaming you for it not working, but they never addressed the whole underlying problem or or or what is actually required.

No. Like, no, I think that's a perfect metaphor. It's like you said, like you would never, you know, just jump to the treatment with the patient, right? You just like get them in the chair, walk in the room and say, I heard your feet hurt, here's the orthotics. You know, you asked for them, you got them.

You know, we'll see you next week, and we'll we'll fit them for you or something. Or maybe you can do it the same day or something. But you have to have that history and physical. You have to spend time listening, understanding what, you know, what does that patient wanna do? You know, are they 80 years old and all they want to do is be able to walk to the grocery store or play out in the park very gingerly with their grandkids or something?

That's setting the bar with that person to do that thing. But maybe it's a 25 year old who has heel pain and wants to run a marathon in six weeks or in eight weeks. What are you going to be able to do for that person? So the expectations or what you can offer these different patients is going to really vary. And you won't know, you just look at the person and hear what they want from you and provide a great service.

You really need to listen to them, examine them, see what all the options are out there, and then pick the ones that are going to be getting them to their highest level of of, you know, of getting better as quickly as possible, but also in a way that, you know, you feel good about and they feel good about, and you built that trust, and you're working together as opposed to just like, give me that orthotic doc, and I'll walk out of your office, and things will be all good. So I think that's a great a great way to compare things and a great kind of a a metaphor for, you know, how, like, you know, you want to look for someone who's help can help you deliver you know, someone's gonna deliver solutions for you, and you just don't wanna, like, pick out someone that's just gonna, like, do, like, a minimal amount of service.

Well, when you were talking about we were talking about footwear, and instead of a patient came into you, podiatrists are far more professional. They just say, oh, yeah. Well, here's the shoe you should get. But that's the difference between a podiatrist who is a foot care professional compared to just going to, like, the athlete's foot to a shoe shop. Because that same person could walk into the shoe shop and say, I've got really sore ankles.

I need some shoes. They go, not a problem. Here's your shoes. Go. They've they've done their job.

To me, that is what happens when some people approach some marketing agencies is they go, I need a pair of shoes, and they give them the pair of shoes and they leave. But when they're talking to you or if they're talking to me with coaching, we're not gonna give them a pair of shoes. Okay. Sorry. You're not getting shoes from me until we do a proper assessment to find out what's going on with your business, then we'll address it.

And, yes, shoes may be part of it, but there's probably gonna be a lot of other things as well.

No. That's another good metaphor. Think it is like one of those things. If if, you know, while I could definitely, like, take you on more business to just build the website to that thing, like, until you have kind of, like, worked down that path together or totally understand what you're trying to build with them, it's it's like a you know, it's just not something that I I can do or want to do anymore because it just you want to make sure that you and the like, I want to make sure that myself and the clinic are aligned. We understand what the objectives are, and then we'll be able to assess them together.

And when I'm providing services, it's I just did that service. But when we're trying to really work together on solutions or ways for them to achieve those clinical outcomes, it's much more satisfying on both ends. I'm sure the clients I work with right now would definitely agree with that. But, yeah, that's it's an interesting topic because I really hope that this kind of information get out to podiatrists. Because if someone's treating you just like, hey, we want to sell you these three services, you should take a step back and really question, do I need services, or I need someone to really you know, I'll get asked sometimes like, well, I don't want your consulting.

I just want your services. And, like, that's not something I can provide because I just, like, I know what where that road leads, and it leads to frustration on both sides of the equation.

It does.

And and and I don't want that you know, life's too short to have frustration you know, frustrating interactions with other people. You know what mean? I wouldn't continue this podcast if I wasn't have learning things from you, Tyson, or enjoying our time together. And I wanna make sure that when I'm working with clients and other podiatrists that we kinda build those positive some, you know, you know, real you know, working relationships that last years and not just, you know, months or weeks. So

Yeah. Well, same thing. I've had some coaching clients that I've had two, three years that we've been working together, and I've taken where their business was, and they're now doing triple what they were doing. And they're making good money beforehand, but we've tripled their turnover. And they've just gone, you know, why people don't do this, I don't know.

And I've met other people who will be with me three months, four months, maybe five, could be six, and they leave. You sort of get we never really got to you know, they they had improvement, but they should've hung around. They should've stayed longer to get the double the yeah. Double what they were doing, triple what they were doing. And it is it's it's all a long game.

You gotta you gotta play the long game.

Yeah. I think it was just finding those people that, you know, you can play the long game with that's that's important on both sides. You know, there's some people that will come to me and do these things, and it's a reasonable fee. But I just like, you know, unless you're willing to do the work with me, like, I I just can't do it anymore. So I think it it's it's it's a great opportunity.

There's lots of great opportunities, whether it be your coaching or in the kind of digital marketing sphere to really help project professionalism and really grow practice or kind of achieve these clinical outcomes and goals that people have, but they just have to be willing to do the work and see it, like I said, investing in those solutions and really seeing it more than just paying for those services.

Yeah. I do think it's and this like you said, there's gonna be certain people where it's only gonna suit them to do a short term fix. That's what they want. Sometimes you gotta give them what they want. But, yeah, it's not always enjoyable working on quick fixes.

It's and there's gonna be certain people who will always see the value in the long game.

For sure.

So, Jim, you got anything else to say or we're gonna gonna call gonna wrap this one up?

No. I think that's a good spot. I think like you like you said, you know, Tyson provides some great podiatric coaching services. You know, I provide, you know, digital marketing expertise.

Great. Tyson provides some great coaching service. Tyson Yeah. Provides awesome coaching services.

Some some means, like, not only do you provide coaching services, you provide these great you know, you've got an upcoming course. I think it's starting here pretty soon in February.

So Better you know, better week's time. Yeah. The the twelve week podiatry business reboot. And Exactly.

So

I think it may be very close to being full, if not full already.

So so so people will be wise to, you know, sign up for some of these things.

It's gonna be a big year this year. It's huge. I got so many so many huge. I got so many ideas in my head, and and now our marketing workshop in October is gonna be fantastic. Fantastic.

I'm gonna hold you to this, Jim. I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna push for it. Okay?

I'm feeling the pressure.

Oh, yeah. There's gonna be pressure. I will talk to you next week.

Alright, Tyson.

Okay. Bye bye. See you.

Thanks for listening to Podiatry Marketing with Tyson Franklin and Jim Mcdonald. Subscribe and learn more at podiatry marketing. That's the website address, podiatry.marketing.