How to Determine a Marketing Budget

You're listening to podiatry marketing, conversations on building a successful podiatry practice with Tyson Franklin and Jim McDannald.

Welcome back to this week's episode of podiatry marketing. With me is my cohost, Jim McDannald. Jim, how are you doing on this fine day?

Things are good, Tyson. I can't complain. I'm excited to jump into today's topic. It definitely is something that I've run across a few times in the last month or two, and I think it'll hopefully provide people a little bit of guidance and a little bit of understanding and insight into this topic.

Okay. What are we talking about? What what is your topic for this particular episode?

Yeah. So the topic you're gonna grill me about and ask questions, in-depth questions, so all the listeners will know whether I'm BS ing or not, but it's it's marketing budgets. You know, how do you determine a marketing budget? We'll give you some comp we'll give you some concrete numbers today as far as, you know, what to expect at different marketing ranges, but also kind of like where you're at in your career, what makes sense, whether you're DIY ing or delegating or just some different people are in different stages, right, of their career and of the practice. And hopefully, today will be a helpful guide to to bring people people along there.

Yeah. It's a common question. I've had a lot of people ask me that in the past. How much should I be spending in marketing? And and I think when they look at their marketing, they're gonna look at all their marketing.

Yeah. What their marketing budget is. Because there's a lot of things that people are marketing, but they don't realize it's marketing and think, oh, no. That's stationary. But it can also be part of their marketing.

No. I think that's a huge thing you're talking about. Like, having an overarching strategy and understanding what are the components of that strategy, and then what is the budget associated with all those things that are being done. Like you said, you know, one one off thing here, one thing over there, like, that may not feel like it's a coherent strategy can still be all be a part of the marketing budget. Right?

So having something more coherent and then knowing kind of, like, what your level of investment in your marketing is, not necessarily like you know, if you don't believe in it, it's gonna feel like a cost or a bill at the end of every month. But how can you get to a point where you're getting some traction and what are those options so you feel like you know what you're spending your money on, and that it's generating that additional revenue for your practice.

So where should somebody start when it comes to trying to figure out what the budget's gonna be?

Yeah. I think the the people should start off by thinking, like, kind of where they are at in their practice and kind of what's what what feels reasonable for them. You know, like, the different people will say different percentage of of your overall revenue each year should be put back towards marketing. Yeah. It should be seen as a way to, you know, exponentially raise your revenue and just, you know, get return on investment.

So, you know, sometimes the range is somewhere between like 510% of overall revenue should go back into marketing. And when you're first getting started and you're maybe not making a lot of money, it can feel like a lot. But it's a time.

To zero is zero. Right. Exactly.

But if you don't do that, right, you're gonna be paying for it one way or another. You're gonna be paying for it by people not coming into your practice. It's gonna be a slower form of growth. So I I'd say that kind of self assessment is currently where, you know, where are you in your practice and what what's been working or not working. I think somebody's just getting started off.

You know, you kind of have this, you know, how technically savvy are you? Now are you, you know, sure you can use Google. You know how to use email and stuff. But, like, are you the best person to kinda DIY it yourself versus do you think this is something that should be delegated to others? And that's gonna really vary on someone's, you know, knowledge of the subject, ability to do things like email marketing or Google Ads.

It's it's sometimes tough to self assess, but, you know, this DIY versus delegation is something to initially consider when kinda first getting started or, you know, kinda the first step of that self assessment.

Yeah. So does this come down to a lot to difference between time and money. So if you're if you're just starting it and practice, you're just about your own business, you have no patience. So therefore, got plenty of time. So should you be learning how to do some of this stuff and be doing it, and then as you get busy, you outsource it if you no longer have time to maintain it correctly.

No. I think it's a good point. I think and there's some people in practice that just enjoy doing this. Like a guy like Don Pelto, who's active in practice. He's a guy that loves doing this kind of stuff.

Right? He loves learning about email marketing. He loves doing like, figuring out Google Ads. He loves talking to people, making podcasts. He likes doing webinars for patients.

So this is almost, like, built like, I would say this is probably something like a 15 to 20% of his job is that he likes doing that. Yeah. That's willing So like someone like yourself.

Yeah. But I did. I well, I had my practice and even when I was working full time, I was doing all this after hours, but then as the business grew and I employed the first person, I dedicated probably at at least a day a week, maybe spread over a couple days just doing that. And then as I got another person, I dedicated two days a week, Then I dedicated three days a week to just working behind the scenes and doing the marketing. Until eventually, that's all I did was mostly behind the scenes doing the marketing, working at the strategies.

And but I absolutely love doing it. I could do it from six in the morning till six at night, twelve hours. Wouldn't wouldn't I wouldn't even feel tired doing it. It was so much fun.

Think it's a great point because I think there's this perception of getting out of residency or getting out of schools, like, you're a % committed to, like, being a doctor, treating patients, doing surgery. And if that's what you love to do, fantastic. Mhmm. But don't really just know that there's other things that have to be done that will then have to be delegated. Right?

It's not if you don't have a passion for it, you just wanna be in the clinic seeing the patients. That's totally fine. But this stuff needs to be get needs to get done unless you already have a system in place. But if you do feel like it's of interest to you, there's a lot of, you know, online materials. Some of them good, some of them bad.

I'm happy to share some of those with you. People reach out to Tyson or I. We can send you in the right direction. Definitely open to having people learn more about this because I think there is a lack of kind of knowledge about a lot of marketing channels or what works now versus, like, maybe what work you know, worked ten, fifteen years ago. I run into issues like that sometimes with clients where, you know, the person they were working with their marketing is stuck, you know, in, you know, 02/2007 with their marketing tactics, and it just doesn't work now.

So if you if you wanna dedicate some time and effort into it, totally fine. And like I said, Tyson and are happy to help you to do those things. But it does come down to it like a time or money issue a lot of times for people. Because if you do have you're starting in practice, you're not totally booked up, you have time to go meet other offices, you have ways of doing low cost marketing, both professionally, you know, with other health care professionals or people in the professional community, doing community events, you know, if you're, like, you know, working at a running, running event. There's definitely and Tyson's talked about in the past, you know, you know, like, something like a golf outing with people that you'd like to get referrals from inviting them to come on, spend a day with them.

I think there's a lot of different ways you can, like you know, when you're first getting started and doing DIY, and you're not too busy in practice, great. But once you start getting busy, there's kind of a a tipping point that happens, and you can't both run your staff, treat the patients, beat the surgical center, and really keep your head on head head in the game when it comes to marketing, what's changing. Because it is not some kind of a static process. It's not a none of these channels are, like, set it and forget it. You have to be constantly learning and doing kind of almost continual, like, instead of medical education, like marketing education to know what works and what doesn't work.

Yeah. I think what's an important point too is I know there's some people that probably not the people listening to this, because everyone listening to this are really, really smart podiatrists. But there's there'll be other ones that they go, oh, no. I don't need to market. My reputation speaks for itself.

And I have two thoughts on that. Even Coca Cola that has a great reputation, big company, everybody knows who they are. When they re, you know, release a new product, they don't just make it, put it in the fridge and go, you know what? Our reputation speaks for itself. So we're just gonna let word-of-mouth build that product.

They get it there and they market that product so they know they need to let people know that that new product is available. And it reminds me of a story going back twenty five years ago when I was in Cairns. I was at a doctor's event. We're all there. There's about five doctors all staring in this group.

I'm there chatting away to them, though I knew who I was, and this other podiatrist in town, which I will not mention, who wouldn't be listening to this anyway. And we were talking about something, and he said, unlike some podiatrist, I don't need to market myself, and walked away. And the doctors the doctors all cracked up laughing and said, I think he was having a dig at you. I said, oh, no. He was.

He was definitely having a dig at me. He doesn't like me. Move ahead twenty years, and I have this absolute booming practice, and he pretty much did nothing because he didn't need to market himself. And that was a big mistake that he kept making, thinking, I don't need to market myself. And he did need to market himself.

Yeah. It's a huge thing. Right? You just have to have a word. Like, you know what you do, you know who you are, but, you know, maybe that person down the street in your community doesn't know those things, and they have to build trust and relationships slowly over time to understand how you can help them.

And unless you're marketing your practice, it makes it very difficult to do that.

Yeah. Well, funny part is I've seen over the last ten or fifteen years podiatrists who are really good at what they do have got a very good reputation, and they have built it up over a number of years, and and good on them for doing that. But I'm seeing these younger podiatrists that are coming through who've been at two, three, five years who are coming into their their area and kicking their ass. They're just kicking their butt. Are those experienced?

No. But they are better at promoting what they do to the public. The public go, oh, okay. So they they go and see them. So I think it's important, especially for podiatrists that have been established for a long period of time, if you know you're no good at this, ask for help.

Whether it's from Jim, whether from me, there's somebody else that you think is the guru that's gonna help you, is get some help so you can be competitive.

I think it's not only for your current practice. Right? Obviously, you wanna see more of a specific type of patient. You wanna make sure your your clinic is busy, But, you wanna make whatever you're doing attractive to the person down the road that whether it's that investment group or the young podiatrist to come in and sell the practice to. You wanna make sure that you're treating your asset, your practice, and and, you know, having it be visible not only to your local community, but also, you know, it it has a certain brand or certain, like, you know, level of, you know, respectability to what you're doing that really is attractive to a potential buyer in the future.

Because it's not only, yeah, you wanna be, you know, owning your practice, doing really well in clinic, but at some point, maybe you don't wanna practice anymore or you wanna sell your practice. And the more you put into the marketing of it and and really build it up, the more attractive it is to someone in the future.

Yeah. And it's also like you will attract if you're looking for a new person to join your team, they're gonna look at your clinic and they're gonna look at another clinic down the road if this is the area they wanna live in, and they're gonna say, who who looks like the more active in the community? And on the other side of things, every time you're marketing your business, whichever way you're doing it, your new patients, current patients are seeing what you're doing, so it's a reminder that you're there. And also professional referrers in the area, nonprofessional referrers. They're seeing this marketing as well, and they're going so all of sudden, could be a, you know, a physio might be thinking, I need to send someone to a podiatrist.

Oh, I might send them to the guy I've seen a hundred times in different places over the last two years, or do I send them to this other person who had no idea who they are? Because I haven't met I haven't met either of them, so I have to send them somewhere. You're gonna send it to the noisy one. Do they make you laugh, do they? That noisy one?

The noisy podiatrist is the one that does the marketing.

Well, I mean, you have to make people aware. Right? I mean, I was laughing a little bit, but there's there's some truth behind that laugh because if you're just like like like I said, like, if you're just putting your head down, trying to do good work, and just don't really give yourself an opportunity to be seen as the expert in whatever niche you choose, then like, you can't be disappointed when people don't come to you for those things.

Yeah. Well, squeaky wheel gets the oil. So if you're if you're making the noise, you will draw attention to yourself. And if you're just sitting there just not making any noise, then people may bypass you.

%. And I think it's like there's different different ways to make noise too. Right? Like it can also be, you know, being at like for me, being a sports medicine or like a running podiatrist. Right?

Yeah. It's being at that marathon medical tent. It's being, you know, active in the local sports medicine community, which should give you that reputation. And maybe it's not like blasting billboards or Facebook ads or anything like that, but there are those ways that our marketing they may not feel like it, but there are ways of marketing your practice that just different sorts of marketing. You know, everything like, think we talked about in previous episodes, like, every single thing that you do is a form of marketing Yeah.

Your practice.

Well, you said that you're you're running the sports medicine. And I've said I've spoken to coaching clients when when we're first starting with them. I said, is it you like to do more of? And they tell me, okay. Okay.

If what you like to do more of, if it was illegal to do it, could I find enough evidence to convict you? I'd be surprised how many people would get off scot free. Wouldn't do any wouldn't do a day of time. Because you go to the website, like, oh, I wanna see more runners, and you're looking through the whole website and you go, I can't find anything about running. And you're going, you you got off.

So to me, it that's what your marketing is all about is making noise about what it is that you wanna do more of like you were sports medicine. So with with marketing, you got different price ranges that people can go at. And you you said before, we're gonna give people an idea of what they should be spending in marketing. So and going back to your initial question is how do they work out? How much should they spend?

And at what point do they start increasing the amount that they spend?

Now that's a great point. I think, like we talked about, you know, it's usually the marketing budgets would be somewhere between 510% of revenue. That's just like an easy way for people to kind of, you know, to calculate themselves. But That's that's you know, I'm break that yeah. Exactly.

So what what I'll do is I'll just gonna break down some different kind of price ranges so people have a general sense of like what those are and then what does that mean, you know, from a deliverable standpoint. Or, you know, it like I talked about, we'll kinda start high and work our way down low, but, you know, different people are in different situations. So, like, you know, obviously, not one size doesn't fit all, but we'll try to really kinda, like, give you a better sense of of what's available. So the first range I would say is, like, we're talking kinda about about a multi doctor practice remote multi podiatrist practice, maybe in an urban area, and maybe three to five doctors. That's probably somewhere in, like, the $5,000 a month range.

You're really having to feed a lot of doctors, patients. You're needing to get visibility. You're probably in a competitive area, so it's not gonna be, you know, super, you know, it's not it's not like you're the only show in town. Right? So Yeah.

You're gonna have to kind of not necessarily fight, but, like, you're gonna have competition that's gonna make it important, number one, to have, like, the best website in your local area. Doing things like Google search ads are gonna be a little bit more expensive because you're trying to get more volume through them. Also, like email marketing. You know, so when you the more kinda head count you have, you're you're looking more in that $5,000 or more range. And that can seem like that's crazy.

Right? Like, I don't even you know, I have a practice that size, and I don't spend that much. But like we talked about, like, in order to get above the noise and have people be aware of who you are and what you're doing, you do have to spend, you know, somewhere in that $5,000 range. It makes a lot of sense.

And I told you that, you know, my budget was usually around about 10,000 a month. Is what I used to just reinvest back into marketing. And even when we were really busy, I still I still spent the same amount of money. I just kept kept the wheels going. And I know what I used to spend in marketing, I know some podiatrists probably weren't taking that home as their profits, but in relation to what the size of the business and what it was generating, that was just the budget that we we decided to spend.

And and there'd other months we have may have spent a little bit less, but, yeah. That was that was just that was that was how I did

it. No. For sure. And I think people just getting started, right, in practice, and they they hear this 5,000 to $10,000 number, maybe your eyes open up a little water. But I would say these these kind of first two ranges we'll talk about are kind of, I would say, more advanced, but for someone that now already sees marketing as, like, an accelerator for growth in the practice.

Yeah. Right? Like, if you if you start spending $5,000 and don't really believe in it, like, you're gonna it's gonna feel like a bill. You're gonna feel like it's it's it's there's gonna be a disconnect there that you're never gonna feel happy or comfortable with. So I would say this this level of marketing and the next one we'll talk about, you know, requires at least some basic understanding and the buy in that is a long term way to build growth in your practice.

If you don't if you feel like it's just something you have to spend every month because everyone else is doing it, at this level, the next one, you're not gonna feel comfortable with. So I'm not I would never, like like, talk someone into this level, like, unless they really felt like they understood what's happening. They could see the potential Mhmm. For for true return on investment. And when I say return on investment, we're talking somewhere like five to 10 x of what you spend

Oh, definitely.

Is what you should get back in revenue, if not more.

Yeah. And I think that that that's why it's important to know your numbers, that there was no way I was spending $10,000 a month if I was not getting going to get 10 or 15 times that. It was just the the reason for doing it. And sometimes you do marketing that didn't work as well, and your return may not have been as great, but you still got a return. And I think sometimes people just they throw money at different places.

They don't measure what's working, and they look at it as an expense. And I think anything that doesn't give you a return is an expense. But if if you're getting a really good return from it, like if I said to someone, spend five and you get 50, you do it every month.

No. For sure.

So what are the next levels down for me?

Yes. The next level is kind of that 1,000 to 5 thousand dollar range. And I would say this is where most experienced experienced practitioners Mhmm. People with their own practices, people that, you know, if you're if you're trying to bridge that gap from, like, really understanding if it truly works or not, you have to be in this range with your budget. Otherwise, you're gonna be stuck too low to really see any results.

And I will also say, like, this is also the range where you do have a very personalized website. You do have, you know, kind of a purse personalized level of care, but you have, like, some individualization around your marketing strategy, the plan, the execution, you're not working with, like, seven or eight different people on your account. You have, like, either one or two, a small team that's in tune and basically looking over whatever you're doing on all your online channels on a consistent basis. You know, once we get lower than this range, you're, like, almost kind of, like, getting into levels where it's almost like copy pasting websites or people that just wanna, like, sell you on a website, charge, you know, a certain amount of money per month, and just kinda let it let it ride. When you're in that 1,000, 5 thousand dollar range, you know, this includes things like, you know, total like a total package of kinda like your website, Google Ads, email marketing, sometimes some Facebook advertising, you know, Google business profile, you know, ways as far as improving SEO and the content on your website in a continuous fashion is in this band of 1,000 to $5,000 a month.

And like I said, can range. These aren't these aren't hard numbers, but you should expect some kind of personalization and, like, be able to text or call that person to really have not only monthly check ins, but if you get a negative review, you'll have someone to, like, just bounce that idea off over how to address certain things. With some of the lower price points, you're not gonna have that level of care or service, and that's kind of the benefit of this thousand to $5,000 range.

Yeah. And I think anyone that is starting their own business is probably making, you know, $10,000 a month pretty quickly in those first few months, I would assume. So to then reinvest 10% back into your marketing is a thousand dollars. So you're already at that level, and then you just slowly keep yeah. As you turn over more, as you make more, you reinvest more, and and then you start building momentum.

Something to be said about consistency. Right? It's like, you know, it it may feel like, you know, people are kind of up and down or expecting unreasonable results in short periods of time, but it's that consistent level of marketing over long periods of time which which, you know, develop and, you know, you get the best results from.

Definitely. So as we wrap up, have you got a final tip for everyone when it comes to budgeting for their marketing?

Yeah. So I would just say we have this one tier below that. You know, actually there's kinda two, but we can kinda combine into to one tier, and that's kinda like the sub $1,000 range. I mean, you can go super bare bones and say, you know, if you just want a website and you wanna do it yourself, you could probably do it for under a hundred dollars. You know?

But if you're what I see a lot of, companies, marketing companies or podiatry growth engine companies like that are basically more volume based. They wanna get as many podiatrists on their platform as possible. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but you do have to know understand the difference between that and that higher tier. So when you're paying between a hundred and a thousand dollars per month for your marketing, it's gonna be a cookie cutter website. It's gonna look a lot like the other clients they've done in the past, almost identical sometimes.

Yeah. You're not gonna have personalization necessarily. Like, you might get that first kind of quasi personalization on your website, but there won't be that continuous updating of content. You know, they won't probably handle other channels. Like, you'll probably get a website for, you know, 3 to $500 a month, but they're not gonna do they're gonna hand you off to an account manager who probably has hundred to 50 other clinics, you know, that they're managing at the same time.

So you're not gonna have a one on one relationship, and you're not gonna be able to really, like, have an individualized website or marketing plan that really fits your strategy or what you're trying to do. So I it's not to bash it. You know, if you're just getting started in practice, you there's no competition in your area. I mean, that's something you can dabble with. I see a lot of people kind of disheartened by the thought of what websites can do and what market can do when they think that, like, it's seen as a cost or they think that, like, they should get amazing results for $500 a month.

Yeah.

It should be somehow automatic. But like anything else in life, you have to be doing consistently at a high level, providing a lot of value to the people that land on your website, and getting that real kind of awareness about what you're doing, on on different channels and in a coordinated fashion that, you know, helps people build trust and feel like they like you are that expert that they wanna see. And while, you know, maybe there are some out there that I'm not aware of in this price range, really you're not you're gonna get more kind of a a standardized package. And it's not bad. I mean, you know, sometimes you'll if you'd you know, there'll be these, you know, they'll they'll send you blog posts that are very vanilla.

Yeah. It's not like it's a bad thing. But if you're expecting, like, return on investment from that $500 a month or that $700 a month for a total marketing package, you're probably gonna be disappointed. And you're probably gonna think it's it doesn't work. But to really make it work, like I said, you have to kinda be more in that that at least that thousand above a thousand dollars in that thousand to $5,000 range.

Really see to put your own personal stamp on what it is, to make sure that you're gaining that momentum like you talked about, Tyson. If you're just spending $500 in marketing bill each month on a website and a little bit of stuff, and you're not getting traction, you really shouldn't be surprised.

But and I do think anyone who's just starting out, you know, in the business and they've just opened up the doors wherever they are, is go and buy yourself some really, really comfortable shoes, and get off your bum, and go and meet as many people as you can, whether they're professional referrals, nonprofessional, because it costs you nothing other than time. And at the beginning, you have time. So if you listen to what we've said and you go, oh, I don't have a thousand to 5,000. I just don't have the budget. I'm I am bare bones.

I mean, I'm I'm really on the bones of my ass here. Then then use that to your advantage. Get out there and meet people, but then as soon as you start making the money, then reinvest it. Start with the like, we've talked about email newsletters. They cost next to nothing to do.

It's stuck. And I think when you're first kicking off too, you you pretty much get it for free if you have under, 500 people on there in some some of the newsletters. So there are things you can do right from the start with no money, but as soon as you start making it, don't think that's the only way that you can build it. You gotta reinvest the money back in your business.

Yes. Yeah. So whether it's a, like, a consultant or an agent or someone you hire in house, yeah, it is something that should be a priority moving forward for your practice to really, you know, reach its full potential for growth and to just deliver great care to people that live in your local area. So I'd yeah. It's one of those things I would say I kinda ended on the point that depending on what where you're at in your practice, there there's kinda different ways to, like, gradually increase what you do.

It's not like an all or nothing situation. And, you know, Tyson and I are pretty open. You know, we obviously have a few other podcasts that we've recorded previously that would, you know, talk about some of these topics and some of these subjects in more detail. I just really wanted to, like, highlight and help set expectations for what you're gonna get when you do sign with someone who's gonna make a website for for $300. Like, what what should you expect from them?

Because if you're expecting, like, a website, they will deliver that. But if you're expecting, like, you know, like a flywheel for new patients and, like, growth in your practice, like, it's probably not a reasonable expectation. So if you have an interest in marketing your practice, you know, you want some additional resources, you know, Tyson and I are both really open about sharing different good online resources. Obviously, some of it's probably stuff we've recorded or stuff we've written as as some of it, but there's also other stuff I'm happy to refer anyone that's interested in listening to this podcast too.

Yeah. That is fantastic way to finish up, Jim. So on that note, I will bid you a farewell and and talk to you again next week. I look forward to it.

Yep. Talk to you next week. Talk soon. Okay. Bye.

Bye. Thanks for listening

to Podiatry Marketing with Tyson Franklin and Jim McDonnell. Subscribe and learn more at Podiatry Marketing. That's the website address, podiatry.marketing.