How to Create A Workflow for Before and After Photos

You're listening to Podiatry Marketing, conversations on building a successful podiatry practice with Tyson Franklin and Jim McDannald.

Hi. I'm Tyson Franklin, and welcome to this week's episode of Podiatry Marketing. With me, as usual, is my co host, Big Jim Mac. So Jim, how are you doing today?

Doing well. I always enjoy hearing the Big Jim Mac, know, gets me pumped up and excited to talk about another podiatry marketing topic. So

So I was on Facebook a few weeks ago, and you had posted something. Might have been on LinkedIn actually, and then I was commenting. And I was gonna write Big Jim Mac. How would you like to see the Mac written? M c or m a c?

Considering your surname's m c, but that just looks like Big Jim m c.

Yeah. It's quite the conundrum right there. Right? So it's really, you know, Jim's Jim McDaniel. So, like, I never I got called Jim Jimmy Mac when I was in podiatry school.

So usually, they would see be MAC.

Yeah.

So, yeah, just MAC works.

Just for future reference when I when I make commentary in professional pages and I call you big Jim Mac.

Fantastic. Yeah. That that LinkedIn post kinda blew up there and

It did. It went well.

Had a it definitely had more than a couple of comments and reactions. So definitely yeah. Definitely was a good one.

But what I liked about that post too was other than you gave recognition to a lot of people, I liked my name came first, which was great.

That was that was very much on purpose if you couldn't tell.

But you could tell the people in the who are very appreciative of you giving them a mention. But, also, you could tell the people who obviously have known you for a few years because you could see the different different comments sort of flowing through from people. Hey, Jim. And, yeah, it's good to see you. So it was yeah.

No. It was good. It was a great post.

Yeah. It's for the people that haven't looked on my LinkedIn, it was basically just a post like saying if kind of breaking down some different podiatry topics and trying to say like, okay, if you want, you know, great podcasts and business coaching, Tyson Franklin is your is your person. And I just kind of put every mention all different people in different categories of podiatry or medicine in general. So, yeah, those those type of posts work pretty well, but you can't do them too often because if you're doing it every month or two months, people will get annoyed that you're mentioning them. So, you know, once every six months or a year for post like that is usually pretty good.

Oh, you can mention me anytime you want. Yeah. Okay. So what what are we talking about today?

Yeah. So in the past, we've talked a lot about kind of authentic photos. Right? You need authentic photos of your ideal patients, make them prominent on all your social media and on your website. But today we're gonna get into a specific type of photo.

And that's basically how do we how can you create a workflow for fantastic before and after photos? And, you know, we you know, we've talked in the past as well about it's not really what you say about yourself that matters, but it's you know, what other people say about you. And sometimes these before and after photos can be another extension of that, right? People can see if they have a bunion and they come to your practice, what might a patient go through from what did it look like at the beginning and then they either did something surgically with you, what was that surgical result looking like in the real world, right? So I think that can be a pretty powerful thing and we'll kind of get into specifics today about you know, why why people don't do it as, you know, what are the kind of current problems or why doesn't everybody do it right now?

What are some different ways to use it either for your internal within your clinic or externally in your marketing? And just some best practices and some ideas that will help you facilitate a workflow that works for for you and your practice.

Yeah. And you were mentioning there's some other professions that are already using this really, really well.

Yeah. So we talked a little bit before the show started that, you know, I I I try to keep my ear to the ground and my finger on the pulse as far as what's happening in different medical specialties, and kind of, you know, taking good ideas from other places and utilizing it with the the people that I, you know, do their digital marketing. And one of those areas that's been interesting to me recently is the kind of the cosmetic surgery or the aesthetic clinicians. They really are all about before and after photos. And this is not something that happens by circumstance, you know, or or by chance.

They don't just like grab their iPhone when they're seeing a patient and then, you know, take a picture of it and then hope they have a HIPAA compliant, you know, way to capture and then find that photo in the future. They have systems and workflows they put into place and, you know, really is part of how they educate the patient as well. It's not necessarily just for their and for promotional material, but it's also a great way to educate patients. So yeah, there's a lot you can learn from other specialties. I know that there's a lot of crossover for surgeons, you know, with orthopedic surgeons.

So learning from other areas of medicine can be really beneficial, and that was kind of the inspiration for today's topic.

Yeah. I like what you said there too. It's about the the planning and the thinking about and the workflow of how you're gonna take the photos. It's not just, oh, I happen to have a foot in front of me that looks exciting. Snap on your iPhone.

And now where do we put that somewhere? And what are we gonna do with it? And then how do you find it later? It's actually having a process in place of so are you saying people should do this with all patients or only specific cases?

Yeah. I think it you know, like we'll talk about kind of how to work into Yeah. Kind of the the flow the patient flow. But I think it is one of those things where if you have a reasonable setup, know, know everyone listening to this podcast, especially in The US at least has like their x-ray room, right? But I can see there could be some benefit of having kind of a photo room, right?

So if you have some kind of a foot deformity or you have a we talked about ingrown toenails or fungal toenails or warts or other types of different dermatological issues can if you take photos of it, it could be a very, very powerful thing. So for me it's about how can we keep it simple for somebody's staff.

Yeah.

Right? We don't be scrambling trying to get photos of these things if they don't they're not needed, but there's probably certain conditions or certain indications where it's just something to check off the box along with x rays or then getting kind of a preliminary history and physical from your staff member. It's just something that should be taken care of so you have that level of personalization too. Right? So if you can have an image of somebody's foot on a computer screen or showing them the angles, obviously if their real foot in front of them, also what a surgical correction could be, could look like with their actual foot, it's gonna be much more powerful than just something, you know, foot models can be helpful, but you know, something more personalized care is a big thing these days and ways to personalize it more is more relatable to patients and kind of kind of drives things home a little more strongly.

Okay. So where you did mention that, you know, if like in The States, they will have an x-ray room.

Mhmm.

But you and you mentioned that they could have actually a photo room. So a person would go in there, sit down, and they've got all the lighting already prepared. They just now flick a couple of switches, everything's on instead of trying to find a room and there's too many shadows and every room is different and sometimes the quality of the photo isn't gonna turn out. So you're saying that that's one of the first steps you should try and do is try and have one particular place where it's set up to take quality photographs.

Yeah. I think if people are really wanting to get into this, that's the way to do it. Right? If you're gonna have your own kind of dedicated photo area, it could be on you know, there's different systems I've seen available. One of the websites I like to check out and I don't know what the pricing is of it, but there's definitely different price points that are available.

But it's called simplestudios.pro is the website. Yeah. It's just a way to see some different setups. There's some more customized setups that are probably more expensive. But there's also things like how to put a, you know, an extra iPhone on a tripod with a, you know, video mic and some lighting.

There's obviously, there's lots of different ways to kinda set up a system like that, but what you really wanna do is you wanna ensure consistent and comprehensive documentation of what you're doing. And you don't wanna be just like like kind of running and gunning or being kind of on the fly. If you have a standardized approach, it's gonna kind of guarantee more high quality consistent images, which is gonna be really crucial to make sure that not only can you use it in the clinic, but potentially in your marketing. Right? You don't wanna have shabby photos that go out to the public if you have permission.

Right? So the fact that you can have this dedicated space if if if you want to have these before and after photos, think is a is a no brainer because if you really want to have a streamlined system, know, making it easy for your staff to get the patient in, onboard them, kind of get the essential things done before you see them, it has to be a smooth process. And if you're just kind of doing things on the fly, it's not gonna be that way.

Yeah. And I suppose it's even when we spoke in the past about creating videos or creating other content. Even when we're doing the podcast, I assume when we like, I don't know if you were the same as me, Jim, but when I first started doing podcasting, it'd be, oh, go do a podcast today. And I'd be clicking everything together and putting everything in place and trying to find where I was gonna do it from. But now everything is so set up that as soon as we go do a podcast, it's everything's already here.

It's just flick a couple of switches, turn a few things on, and we are actually ready ready to go.

I think that's a perfect example. You know, the first couple times that we were recording, right, like we're trying to figure out when is our schedule gonna be, what works for us

Yeah.

What type of equipment are we gonna use not only to to host the website, but to record the web to record the podcast, to, you know, to promote the podcast. Like how like, what is my background gonna be? What is the lighting gonna be? All those kind of decisions. If you're having to make those all those decisions every single time you're gonna do something, it makes it very onerous and almost the point where after a few of them you probably wanna give up or quit.

But if you have dedicated equipment, you know, you get into flow with the software you have, you understand where how you save things. It's like whenever you hand off the finished episodes for me to upload to our our webs our podcast host, right? Like I know it's gonna be in this folder.

Yeah.

I just have to go find it. I have to upload it. And I have a workflow for those things. But if you decide you're just gonna try to run and gun it and not have a workflow, you're gonna have a very bad time and and not only are you gonna have a bad time, the patient's gonna have a bad time, bad experience, your staff is probably gonna be super annoyed with you. So it's really important if you want to do this and I think it is can be a very powerful thing and not a lot of podiatric clinics are currently doing.

So it'd be a great way to kinda differentiate yourself from others in your local area. Get some and we'll kinda go over the what the workflow is, but put together a workflow that works for you and your staff to make this thing happen.

I like what you said then too. It's it's something that can set you apart from what everybody else is doing. So if you had an actual process, and like you said, once the process is in place and everybody is on board with how the workflow is, it will just happen instantaneous. And if a patient came in all of sudden, they were taken to a certain room, certain photographs were taken, and it's like, oh, and if they've ever been anywhere before and that's never happened, they go, well, that was a that was a different experience.

No. I think that's a it's gonna separate yourself from others, but also it's one of those things where it's a a powerful way to generate consistent content potentially. Right? I know that our UK and Australian users maybe not can't use it externally in their marketing and such, but even internally having that stuff to show the patient during the treatment course, and this kind of gets into the the reasons why you wanna have a workflow in the first place is number one, it's the consistency and documentation. This isn't only good for you in the marketing of your practice, but this is a great way to educate patients, but also show them the type of care you're providing them, right?

If like we talked about previously Tyson, if someone came in three months ago for laser nail treatment for the onychomycosis and they don't think that anything has changed and you know it has, when you have photos to show them, look, we've had three centimeters of improvement on that nail. That's about what we would expect. It kind of just helps facilitate the communication between the patient and the doctor in a way where you're not at a combative, like, you know, he said, she said situation there. There's documentation there. So when you systemically do it from the start, it leads to consistent and comprehensive collection of treatment records, which is something that is gonna benefit you in multiple ways.

Yeah. And we used to do the same thing with the patient if they came in just for routine foot care. Big corns, calluses on the bottom of feet. We would take a photo of the bottom of their foot sometimes beforehand, and then as soon as I finished the treatment, I'd show them again. I'd take another photo and show them the end result, and patients would just go, oh my god, didn't realize how disgusting my feet looked to start with and how good they looked when they finished.

But even long term, if that person eventually went down the whole biomechanical and orthotic path, then you can show them photos a year, two years later of this is what the foot locker when they first came in and where things were building up and then you show them down the track how it's improved. I tell you, it's it it keeps them they become raving fans of your business and they tell other patients about you.

Well, it's exactly that. Right? It's it's another form of patient communication. Like, can our words and we can write things, but when we see something just us being humans, right, we recognize it and it's a way to communicate that improvement or to engage with people. And, you know, during that initial visit, when you explain the process of, you know, benefits of before and after photos, it really helps them understand, know, and and you can kind of set clear expectations that will build trust with people.

Right? Mhmm. You know, you can show them, you know, 10 different bunionectomies that you did or here's what here's what you can expect kind of before and after of a ingrown toenail to look like. Right? So, oh, I'm worried about you taking out that chunk of nail.

It's gonna make me look I'm gonna have a skinny toenail after that. Right? But like or or a big gap. Right? You take that nail out and people are like, oh my gosh, there's a huge gap there.

You didn't tell me that huge gap would be there. But if they can show them some photos of like before and after what it's gonna look like, it's gonna set their mind at ease and they're gonna have reasonable expectations and they'll feel well informed about their kind of treatment options and the kind of patient journey that they wanna go on to.

Yeah, so what's the workflow? What have you, I suppose you have some ideas on the perfect workflow?

Yeah, so I mean, like we talked about it, it's really about, know, as far as kind of the benefits of it, get into first and we'll maybe talk about the specific workflow, it's also one of the most important parts of workflow is getting consent or agreement from the patient, right? So the good thing about it, I would say, that the photos we take as podiatrists is that we're not taking anything. It's all below the knee, right? So we don't have to worry about somebody's face or other parts of the more sensitive areas of somebody's body being showed. Would say that sometimes people are somewhat shy or, you know, shy you know like people don't always appreciate the complexity and the beauty of a foot.

They can just like oh my feet are gross I wouldn't want to do that. But you know like I talked about getting them to sign the consent and having an efficient way for them to be consented in a kind of a stepwise fashion where you're explaining what you're gonna be doing with these photos and making sure that you're legally compliant and that you're respecting the patient's privacy. Right? Just if they absolutely don't want any taken, you don't have to, but really explaining to them why you're documenting it this way and it's kind of up to them about how they could potentially be shared but obviously never with their health information. But getting that routine, that consistent management of getting that signed consent is really, really important.

Okay. So they give you the consent? Where do

you Yeah. After the consent Yeah. So like another benefit is the kind of quality control we talked about. Yeah. So instead of just having run and gun where maybe the sun is out one day, it's a it's a cloudy day the other, you're going from different treatment room to different treatment room, you can really control the quality when you have a workflow.

You're kind of integrating the documentation and it really looks standardized. So, you know, even between different types of patients, you can kind of make some judgments and you can kind of see those differences more clearly. It's truly before and after as opposed to like a before that a weird angle with weird lighting.

Yeah. True.

And then after that is this kind of off, you know, the you got the the back of the chair instead of the floor with like zero consistency. So you wanna keep that that high quality amount of imagery going.

Don't worry. I'm just laughing because I have these images in my head. Do you know when you see these health photos where somebody will have a photo of them before they go on this particular diet? Then they'll have a photo of them after the particular diet. And then before the diet, they're standing front on, grumpy look on their face, hair is greasy, hasn't been washed for a couple of weeks, and and there's like a a really crappy background there.

They're like, ugh. And then they take the photo and they're side on. Yeah. Slightly side on. Different background.

The hair's all done. The makeup's looking fantastic. You sort of go, yeah. It's would've been great if you could've got exactly the same standing for yeah. The same angle.

Yeah.

And I have seen that in before and after photos of not just podiatry but other things. And it is when you see two photos where you can look and go, oh, you can tell that is the same foot because it's the same background, they were on the same bench, whatever. And you can tell, you can just tell from the light it is the same person.

Yeah. It's a little they get a little tricky sometimes with that. Right? You know, they know that certain ankles and certain photos will make someone look, you know, more buff or or look like they've lost weight when in reality, know, maybe, you know, the good thing with the foot and ankles, you can't really suck it in though. No.

Right? Like with your gut or those things, can kind of suck it in and hold tight for a bit, but Yeah.

A fat foot's a fat foot.

If you have a good if you have good angles at it, like you're gonna get that true before and after. So you don't have to worry about getting tricked by the people taking the photos at all.

Okay. What's next?

So next is really I talked about it briefly already, but it's this is really the kind of marketing and educational opportunities these photos will open up for you in your practice.

Yeah.

Now having this structured workflow. So, you know, with the structured workflow like I talked about, it's that the consent process, right? So when they check-in, letting them know you're gonna be taking photos, getting that consent either, you know, before they even come into your office or they're at the office, consenting them for that. I would say like if you have the space in the office, having kind of a small photo studio And we like people have questions about what that could look like, they can get in contact with you. But having that that little photo studio almost in a similar way as a an x-ray machine in that little x-ray booth that people have or a little x-ray room, something set up similar.

And then having, you know, software is really, really important because whenever you take that, if you're using a DSLR or if you're using some type of Apple iPad or an iPhone device, you want that to be automatically attached to your EMR. And there's certain software that integrates with EMRs to have that stuff immediately available. And the reason we want have that immediately available is that, you know, there are educational along with the marketing, you know, you're gonna be creating a ton of before and afters you could potentially put on Instagram, Facebook, other places with their patient's permission

Yeah.

That really shows people what you do. But then you can also have it for our UK and Australian listeners who can't do that form of marketing.

Oh, no. You can do that. You you can you can actually do before and after photos And

Okay.

As long as you got the patient's consent, as long as you're not mentioning the patient's name and the patient isn't doing a testimonial or endorsing what

you've done.

But, yeah, you can do before and after photos without a problem. And I've seen a lot of people say, with patient's consent, and then they'll show the photos. But when we used to do that, we I never wrote with patient's consent because I had the patient's consent. I don't need to tell everybody else I've got it. I wouldn't have posted if I didn't have it.

No. For sure. And I think like so like that is that that software piece is important. Right? So the the having the equipment to take those consistent photos in kind of a controlled environment, having the software that ties into your EMR.

So then when you're sitting there with the patient, you can have that frank conversation. You can show them their foot their foot, whether it's the a wart, the size of the wart. You know, some types of software you can measure you can measure it to say, okay, now we know it's three centimeters. We're gonna try to do this swift treatment wart and, know, it's gonna take six tries, but we'll you'll see the improvement over time. You can actually show them

Yeah.

The sequential photos. So that that, you know, that that to me is what is really, really important. Because I think there's a lot of people still that they utilize social media, but they're not really sure what they're supposed to put there. Are they supposed to put funny photos of them doing something that's like funny at the time, like TikTok dances or, you know, it's okay to like show personality and I'm for that. But I think there has to also be some clear content that people would be like, oh, wow.

They they do that wart treatment. And I can see the progression in that video that they showed. It doesn't have to all be that but I think when you have some compelling video and photo content of patients of these kind of before and after opportunities and we didn't really get into this at all today, but like, you know, this testimonials can be a part of it as well potentially in the future. You don't have to do the before part, but, you know, having a dedicated space, maybe the same places where you take your photos to get that, that it can be kind of another way to kind of augment what we're talking about today. But, you know really building up the amount of photos you have for your marketing and to help educate patients.

Like I said, the last 10 bunions you did or the 20 different bunions types that you've done, you can show people what an incision looks like and they can be have a clear mind, a clear idea and an image in their mind of what's gonna happen and and kinda get their expectations on the right level.

Yeah. So there's three big benefit to do it. One, strictly for the patient to show them before and after what what's happened with their own foot or treatment over a period of time. The second thing is you can use a group of photos of a a particular condition like your same bunion surgery. Here's 10 people I've done previously with with the same condition as yours.

Yeah. Same level of severity. This is what it looked like afterwards so they can go, okay. That's great. That's what mine's gonna look like.

But the third thing is then using it. If you're ever given the opportunity to do a talk or a presentation Yeah. You have got a file of photos. And I I think off the top of my head, it was Alan Sherman when he was on the podiatry legends podcast, and he mentioned something about a podiatrist came up to him one day and said, oh, do you have we've this talk on so it was ingrown toenail surgery. Have you got any photos I can use?

And he said, you've been doing practicing podiatry for twenty years, and you're telling me you do not have photographs of nail surgeries that you have done. And so if it wasn't Alan Sherman, I I apologize, but I'm pretty sure it was him that actually said that. And he just said just surprised him that people didn't have photographs of what they've been doing over their career.

Yeah. It'd surprising rather than I think this this the kinda getting this workflow going, you know, it that that kind of documentation, I think that the talks is a great op you know, a great idea as well if you want to give professional talks either locally to to community groups or, you know, on the national stage at conferences. This is going to give you that original material that you can use in whatever ways you choose to.

Yeah. Definitely. So what else? Anything else you need to cover on this or

Yeah, so the last tip that like we talked about, has kind of to deal with that standardization, right? So one idea or one maybe kind of objection people might have as well, I don't really wanna take much more of the patient's time. Right? We're already really busy. I'm already trying to see 30 patients or 40 patients a day.

Like, just I don't I don't want to waste time doing this. But, know, if you have a system in place and a work from place, you're gonna be really efficient with your time, right? If you've dedicated space as part of the onboarding process with your staff, you know, incorporating this workflow is gonna really streamline the process and make it time efficient. So, know, you don't have to worry about, oh, there's an interesting case. Now I have to spend, five or ten minutes for my staff member to go take a photo of this.

It's already done as you're onboarding and bringing the patient into practice and then or as they're exiting the practice with their kind of after photo in a way. So time efficiency is really a benefit of this workflow if you can implement it. So no, in summary, I'd say like, you know, integrating a photo documentation and kind of before and after photo workflow, know, it's a really I think it's a at the initial it really starts at the initial patient visit and the onboarding process is really crucial for, you know, maintaining consistency, you know, legal compliance, patient engagement. You know, you you create high quality photos that you can use in a a variety of different ways. It's a really efficient use of your time and your resources in your podiatry clinic.

And I think, like I said, it can really set you apart from other people because I don't it's not something I see a lot in podiatry. I know that it's gonna take some time. It's taking a bit of training, but there are resources and people out there available to help podiatrists do this. So like I mentioned, there's some different software and some different manufacturers of different types of custom or off the shelf, you know, audio audio visual and image software that can be used in a HIPAA compliant manner. So if you have those questions, I mean, I'll leave a few links here in the show notes or you can just, you know, reach out to me, jimpodiatrygrowth dot com, and I'm happy to, you know, give you some information and and give you some ideas about how you can use this before and after photo workflow to really benefit your practice and your patients.

Yeah. And, yeah, that was that was a great summary at the end. But just one thing I was just gonna get back when you're talking about the time efficiency. And I could see some podiatrists go, oh, well, how am supposed to fit that into my day when I'm already really busy? So I'm glad you touched on that.

But it's like anything we talk about on this podcast. We'll throw out some different ideas. And if you ever catch yourself saying, oh, I don't think that would work for me, or I don't know how we could make that work, just change the question to how can I make that work in my practice? And straight away, that will open up a completely different thought process of how can you implement before and after photos as part of your workflow. Not we won't have time or I don't think that would work.

If you look at it in the positive, will find a way to do it. So I think it's something that we probably do not do enough of.

Well, it's one of the things too. Like we you know, like I think one of the problems with any any clinic is like, how do I create? What's a time efficient way to create content for my social media, right? And I and I and I struggle with that as well, right? Like, because you have to have something that's kind of on brand, you need to have something that you can do on a consistent basis that, you know, is gonna be valuable to the people you're sending it out to.

And if you work if you build a workflow where this is part of what you do in the patient onboarding that five minute that extra three to five minutes you're getting those photos you know, you're if you're seeing 30 or 40 new patients a week just multiply that by the number of photos that you have Yeah. The before and after. I mean, it's gonna create a ton of helpful and really valuable content for all those channels. And obviously, you can still make your TikTok videos. You can do your dances.

You can show how you're impacting the community in a positive way, but this is this is an idea that I'm I'm really excited for for more podiatrists to know about and then implement to the practice.

Yep. I think it's fantastic. So okay, Jim, on that note, I'm gonna bid you farewell. This I love this topic. This is really it got me fired up for a few few different reasons that I'll I'll tell you off air, but I think it was great.

So thank that that that was great. Thanks.

No problem, Tasson. Okay.

See you next week. Bye.

Thanks for listening to Podiatry Marketing with Tyson Franklin and Jim McDaniel. Subscribe and learn more at Podiatry Marketing. That's the website address, podiatry.marketing.