Getting Off On The Right Foot With Your Marketing Provider

You're listening to podiatry marketing, conversations on building a successful podiatry practice with Tyson Franklin and Jim McDannald.

Hi. I'm Tyson Franklin, and welcome to this week's episode of podiatry marketing. And with me today is my cohost. Everybody knows him all around the world as big Jim. How are doing today, Jim?

I'm just trying to get used to this this fortune and fame, you know, the the the nickname you've given me. People reaching out left and right. It's a lot of fun, but

They'll be writing songs about you soon.

Yeah. There's a like a Jim Croce song that it's about Jim, but it's not about big Jim. So there's like Bad Bad Leroy Brown. Have you heard that song before? Yeah.

Yeah.

I played it on the guitar.

Yeah. But that's the only song about Jim that I mean, there's other Jimmy Jimmy Jimmy Mac.

Yeah.

Jimmy yeah. There's other ones. But no. Things are good here in Montreal. I've got no complaints.

It's, you know, it's it's nice outside. I can get outside for some long runs. I know how much you enjoy those. So

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Top of my list of things to do. Oh, actually, I I enjoyed like, when I got into running, I really enjoyed it for to a point. But now everything was fine until then I just had a couple of issues and they just never went away, and I just couldn't run anymore.

So I I do. I see people running, like, I wish I could actually do that.

Yeah. I mean, cycling is another option. It can, I guess, be a little dangerous depending on where you live? But No.

It's something that doesn't appeal to me at all. Anyway, Jim, what are we talking about today?

Today, we're gonna jump into, you know, getting talking about getting off on the right foot with your marketing provider. I think there's a lot of people out there that, you know, maybe they're listening to us talk about, you know, digital and traditional forms of marketing. They they think it's kinda interesting. They thought about working with somebody, but they aren't really sure, you know, what does that kind of relationship entail? How do you get started?

How's it gonna work? And like, what kind of expectations they should have going into starting with someone that, you know, provides marketing services to them? So today, we're just gonna touch on some some basic things to really make sure that our audience kind of has the lay of the land and feels informed. So if they do wanna start doing some traditional or digital marketing in their practice, they they feel equipped with information so they can ask good questions and not feel like, you know, someone's kind of holding the wool over their eyes or that it's they aren't sure what's going on.

Yeah. And that's one of the things I've said to people a lot of the times that you don't have to do your own marketing. You don't have to really totally understand marketing or even enjoy marketing, but I think you've gotta have some comprehension and understanding of what marketing is. Otherwise, you could be talking to someone and they can just they can anyone can show you some facts and figures to make something look good, but you could be able to quickly look through it and go, yeah. No.

That's BS. That's not BS, and be and be able to determine it.

No. That's huge. I think that's why we were we kind of came together to start this podcast in the first place was to really help educate our colleagues so they can make these good decisions and know what's going on. I think when you when you're informed and you have that, you know, information is power. Right?

So, you know, when you know what's going on, at least you don't have to necessarily be a, you know, subject matter expert in it or know every single thing. But if you have a general lay of the land, you're in a much better position to make good decisions for you and for your practice.

I thought we did this podcast to get rich and famous.

Well, if that's if that's the case

It hasn't worked.

I got to I yeah. I'm I'm

not not yet.

Not yet. We'll see.

Anyway, so where do we start? Someone's listening to this. What what should they do first?

Yeah. So first, it's just kind of like, you know, when you're gonna, you know, sourcing out these different providers, I would say the number one thing you need to figure out to begin with is how to determine if someone is a good fit for you and your practice. Right? You know, different people, like I said, are at different levels of knowledge when it comes to marketing and different types of providers are gonna provide different types of services. Right?

And, you know, it's one of the things where, you know, one of the first things is, you know, how do they kind of initiate a relationship with you or this kind of business relationship. So, you know, if someone's, you know, all of a sudden, you know, they're they're cold calling you, they're getting in touch with you and they wanna sign you up for a year contract. Like, if you're really, you know, some people will kind of go with that, but I would really hesitate to, you you know, I would I would definitely strongly suggest people that, you know, try to find ways to kind of test the relationship initially. Yeah. You know, utilizing something like, you know, kind of a digital marketing audit or or a traditional marketing audit to really kind of see what it's like to work with with this person or the or this this organization or this agency.

Because when you can do it on a trial basis, maybe it's a, you know, 500 or a thousand dollar spend on like an audit or maybe it's like a month trial. And if you don't like it, then you can stop, you know, with no with no further obligations. When you when you do that, you're you're seeing what this these people are like. Right? So not only do they deliver on the things that they say they're gonna do, you know, like, can kind of, are they honest?

Are they, you know, providing what they said they would, you know? That that that seems like a a small thing, but I think there is a level of trust you have to have with, you know, it's a huge thing actually to have a level of trust with the person you're paying, you know, a few thousand dollars a month to kind of help you generate, not only generate patients, but also kind of build the reputation of your clinic both in the local area you're in, but also online. So that's really, really important. Number two is like, how do they talk about, you know, the things they're trying to explain to you? Like, do you understand?

Are they, you know, way over your head or your head? Are they, you know, asking, you know, questions of you? Do they really engage with you to understand what why you wanna do marketing? Or are they just saying, we're gonna do these five things for you and this is the way it's gonna be. It needs to be a lot of kind of back and forth in these initial conversations.

So are they good listeners? Do they do they seem like they're gonna execute on what is good and best for your practice? So this is kind of the first step along the course of determining if someone is like kind of the right marketing fit for you in your practice.

But it can work not just online. It's also offline marketing. If you were dealing with a local radio station, which in certain areas is still gonna be a great marketing tool or a local magazine or a local newspaper, that sales rep that you're dealing with, the same rules apply. Is yeah. Do you know, like, and trust them?

But would you say it's a good idea to always ask them, who have you worked with in the past?

Yeah. Definitely references can be an important thing. Like, you know, if, you know, if they're burning through clients. Right? And or if they're hesitant to say, if you ask, you know, can I can you give me the the email or can you give me a contact information for the people you're working with now or people you have in the past?

If they're unwilling to do that, that might be a little bit of a red flag that Yeah. That they may not live up to certain expectations. So, you know, sometimes there are gonna be people that, you know, maybe they jumped in with an agency or with a podiatry marketing specialist and they, like, they're just was they're they kind of skipped ahead that step. Right? Like, they they didn't get to get to know that or kind of build that trust initially.

And then they quit after two months or three months. You know, those are a little tougher. You know, definitely wanna make sure that, you know, you get a couple of references so you can kinda see what it's been like for more than one person because, you know, some people just don't gel well together or fit well together. And that's not necessarily always the on the marketing provider's fault. But at the same time, you know, getting some multiple references can be helpful to suss some some of that stuff out.

Well, especially if they've never worked with a podiatrist before. If they've never worked with a podiatrist clinic before and they come and present a marketing plan, how do they really know exactly what they're doing? So to me, it's always good. Have you worked with podiatrists before? This happens in coaching where I'll talk to a podiatrist.

It could be a conference. I'm gonna go, yeah. I've I've got this business coach, but it hadn't for about four months, but, yeah, coaching doesn't work. I go, alright. So how many podiatrists have they coached before?

Oh, no. Usually, coach mechanics. Slightly different. Even though business is business, there is the intricacies of what we do. Sometimes that they they need to understand.

So I think it's important for any provider to have an understanding of what podiatry is.

And they should really tease out your specialty as well. Right? Like, is like, some of the questions you have. Right? You don't want like you said, you don't want this, like, kind of generic podiatry website built for you.

Right? Like, it's gonna be something that it needs to be kinda tailored to who you are and kinda building your expertise expertise and your reputation. So that's really, really important.

Yeah. I always find a find I I love going on to Facebook pages when I know somebody or, actually, I don't know that they use an agency or not. But once you go start flicking through their feed, it doesn't take long to go, they use an agency, and that agency just pumps out this really generic stuff that doesn't say anything about and and I'll know what their clinic is about, but nothing that they post is sort of even relevant to that particular person or to their business.

No. It's gonna be relevant. And like you said, it's gotta build your reputation. That's really that that's that first important step.

So what's next after they've after they've found somebody?

Well, you need to ask them about, like, do they have local exclusivity to the relationship? Right? So some some of the bigger vendors out there, PatientPop being one example is that they're happy to have as many podiatrists in your local area as possible. So, you know, doctor Tom down the street will have the same, you know, if you're on PatientPop, they're very happy to sell PatientPop and and basically their SEO website and all their digital marketing services to the same person down the street, is, you know, sets up for a huge conflict of interest, to be honest. And, you know, because, for example, like in Google Ads, like you're kind of bidding against, you know, competitor clinics or other people that are utilizing Google search ads.

So if PatientPop is running Google search ads for five podiatrists in the Austin, Texas area, like, that's not a great thing. Like, as you're not only are you driving up your costs, but you you're the person who's kinda on your side and helping you strategize and execute. Your marketing is is working with the competition. So you really need to make sure that whoever you're working with has look you and them have local exclusivity to make sure that they're not, like I said, you know, working with competitors. Like I said, there's there's different, you know, it it it's it's a it's a vital thing.

I don't think it's something that should be taken too lightly, but I see I see it happen from time to time where there's three or four people within driving distance of each other Yeah. You know, with the same provider. It doesn't make sense to me.

But I've seen that in coaching as well where I I will never coach two people that are competitors. I just couldn't do it because I know even though you say, oh, no. I would never say anything. It's not that you say something, but you know something. So therefore, does that more affect your actions on what you you end up doing?

So and I think with sales reps who don't yeah. Some sales reps, I'm sure, are totally ethical across the board, but I'm sure there's a few who could be questionable.

Well, I mean, when they're on commissions, right, they're incentivized to kinda get you know, it's it's more about volume than it is about more about quantity than quality. So when you have people incentivized with sales commissions that work for these companies, that's what they want. Right? And it's not necessarily the best interest of you and your clinic that they're looking out for.

I know you do have to be careful. What about websites? What what should people know or understand about that?

I think it's really important that people realize, you know, reading the fine print, if you do if you kinda kinda got to the point where you're ready to commit to working with someone, you need to understand like who owns all the different parts of your digital marketing arsenal or the kind of digital face of your practice, right? So your domain name, the your website, the content on your website, the photos, all those kinds of things. Like, so there's certain providers out there that will basically kind of keep that to themselves, right? They they they're the ones that register the domain. They own that.

They own all the stuff that's on your website. So they make it very hard for you to feel like you can get away from the situation. It's almost like a, you know, an abusive husband or abusive boyfriend, right? Like they have all your stuff. So like, of course, you're not gonna wanna leave them and it's gonna be very, very hard.

But it's important that that, you know, that you own those things. Right? Yeah. So whenever you're looking at fine print, you need to make sure that and you just need to ask them straight out, like, do I own this, you know, in the future? Because if you don't, you know, you're and not only the switching costs are are gonna be more because, you know, you're you're not gonna wanna leave because you feel trapped.

But then also when you go to another provider, they're gonna have to basically make you front something from scratch. And also, you do if you don't own that domain name, there's problems as far as kind of your discoverability on Google when people are searching for the name of your clinic. Yeah. If the domain has changed from, you know, let's call it phoenixfootdoctors.com to like, you know, doctoranderson.com or something, if it switches like that, over time, what happens is that the longer you own a domain name and the more kind of reputation and links that it has, the higher it ranks in search. So starting something from ground zero and trying to grow that again, it requires a lot of time and effort.

And this doesn't happen overnight with these things. So you really have to know who owns your website content, who owns the domain name, who owns the photos, and all that stuff. Otherwise, you know, it could be an expensive problem that you have in the future.

So that that actually happens where people go to a website developer, and that website developer actually owns the domain name. So if they decide they wanna leave, they are unaware that, hang on, I don't even own my own own domain.

No. It's it happens more than you would think. I would say that it probably happens more with the website content than it does with domain names. I think

Yeah.

Most podiatrists are are savvy enough to know that, I need to own this. So I haven't seen too many cases of people losing their domains because they switched digital marketing providers, but it is definitely something to be very aware of.

And I know photos, you've always gotta be very aware of any photo that's on your website that you have permission to either use it or it's your own photo. Don't don't think you can sneak sneak in somebody else's photo, and they'll never know because eventually, they'll find out. And I've heard some scary stories of people having to pay, you know, $10,000 fines because they've copyrighted someone's material or they've breached the copyright.

Well, some of these companies will have kind of licensing agreements or, you know, paid plans with different stock image providers.

Yeah.

And while that doesn't like you know, if you're if you're working in your clinic all day, this is kind of a world that's somewhat foreign to you. But so they're kind of almost like renting that photo in a way. So once you switch providers and like, unless your new provider has the exact same company they're using stock images from, There's a lot of ways to get free or low cost images. Obviously, I think it's best to have, you know, your own photographs, you know, your own photos, your own photographer, you know, helping you build your authority by showing you doing all the work you love to do. But, you know, occasionally utilizing a bit of stock images, you have to be careful.

Like you said, running into copyright issues or image use issues is not super uncommon.

Okay. So once you get the website sorted sorted out, what's the next is there a problem that people do after that about not continuing to build it or grow it? They just put it there and they think that's it? Don't need to do anything else?

Yeah. I think there's really kind of two models, and I think this will help kind of the clinicians out there understand kind of you know, so how does it work from a business perspective, right? So there's kind of two models as far as when you're working with either a website provider or digital marketer. A lot of people see it as kind of, you know, what do you call it like the build it and leave or the set it and forget it. That's kind of one school that's, you know

Is this coming from the provider side of things? So you're dealing with provider and they go, yeah. We'll build your website for you. They build it and they go, yeah. It's yours.

See you later. And the other type of provider will build it and go, okay, now we wanna help you grow it.

Right. So are you like, know, are you working with someone who's like a a website builder and that's what they're gonna do and they're gonna deliver it to you and then they're gonna go away? Or are you gonna work with someone who's more of a, you know, a a podiatry marketing specialist who can build websites, but also help you have a general strategy, really get to know you and your practice and kind of grow with you.

Yeah.

Identify trends and ways to promote your practice in ways that are not only ethical, but benefits your patients that, you know, kind of stay on top of where things are going. It can be kind of, you know, it definitely is something where that first, you know, set it and forget it or kind of build it and leave model, you know, maybe it's, we'll build you a website for $8,000. Right? So that might seem expensive, but you know, over the course of the year, you know, that's like that's like less than, you know, 6 or $800 a month. So it's somewhere in that range.

Yeah.

And it feels like, okay, like I can I can deal with that because I'm it's just this one time cost? Right? So it's a cost, I'll just do it and then we're good. But the problem becomes is that, that model is that, you know, there's no one really looking out for the future well-being of of the website. Maybe you're decent at websites or someone on your staff is, but, you know, when plugins change or things need to be updated or, you know, different types of content or formatting, you know, issues, bugs, you know, support of the website, figuring out hosting and those things.

We're just talking about websites. We're not even talking about Google Ads or email marketing, other stuff. Not having somebody you can kinda turn to and call and say, hey, like, what's going on with this? Can you help me out? I need to put this form and do this.

It seems like a small thing until you need to have that done. Mhmm. On the other hand, it's more, you know, that's kind of that, you know, billable cost model. The other type of model is more, you know, an ongoing ongoing services. Right?

More of a retainer model. And that's, you know, like a podiatry marketing specialist who will and this is kinda what I do with with my clients. You know, I I work with them. I I build out the website, but it's more of like a monthly monthly fee that we that we agree upon. And I'm there, you know, they get a bad review.

They they saw this thing on the Internet. They wanna try to, you know, in their marketing or they want Yeah. To, you know, promote a certain type of modality or service to their local community. I can work with them as far as identifying what the best kind of return on investment options are for those things. And we kinda implement those things together and they can kinda go back to treating their patients and working with their staff.

And I work in concert with them to kind of execute those things on their behalf. So I think how you look at it, right? Is it like, is it this cost, this one time thing you're just gonna like, you know, set it and forget it or kind of build it and let it kind of die in the vine? Are you gonna basically utilize your marketing as a something you continue you wanna get better, gain some momentum, and see it as a long term investment instead of just a short term cost?

And I suppose it comes down to as well what your own, you know, what what's your own time worth. So for myself, I still have doing all my own website stuff, so I'd never had a problem doing it and constantly growing it. But for a lot of podiatrists, they don't have time to do the work, so it's better for them to have somebody else do it for them.

No, for sure. Everyone's in a different situation. And I think there's a lot of people that can build websites, and maybe they do provide some kind of ongoing support. So I'm not saying that this is like, these are the only two ways of doing things. So but but I think there is the thing, you know, if you want not only the building, but the strategy and that kind of consistently looking ahead to trends to make sure that you're staying on top of things, you know, I'm a little bit biased towards that that second model.

What about communication reporting? The people that you're working with because I have had some people have said to them, so this, you know, service provider that you're using, how often do they tell you what's going on? And they're like, oh, I get an email once every three months just saying this is what they've done. And, like, what about what they're going to do or what's the plan? Or do you sit down and talk to them?

What and a lot of them, they they get nothing.

Yeah. That's not uncommon. I think, you know, it it depends on I think every every kind of podiatrist that's doing this is is a little bit different as far as what they need. But I'd say definitely that first three months is really important to kind of build that trust and kind of understand like how, you know, the podiatrist and the the marketing provider are communicating, like what works best between those two. So, you know, I think monthly reports is kind of where it starts off.

But also, it's not only before, you know, you hire that it happens before you hire that person as well, right?

Like Yeah.

What is that communication like? Do they seem like someone that speaks at your level and is really focused on providing the out you know, helping you get the outcomes you wanna have in your practice, right? It's not about clicks and impressions and all these kind of like marketing things, but is it, you know, bringing patients to your clinic? Is it scheduled appointments? Are they focused on those right kind of key performance indicators to make sure that you're gonna be successful?

So, you know, understanding like how do do they provide kind of an online dashboard? Do they, you know, do they send you a a PDF, you know, like every month, you know, and kind of open it up, say, hey, would you like to meet? Generally, what I do is I'm I'm kind of a person that sends either a a monthly at the very beginning for sure report, and then it kinda becomes quarterly after you've kinda built that trust. We have a system of things that are working well. But I think that that quarterly you know, after it gets to kinda quarterly, it's really important to have, you know, kind of face to face or video calls.

Right? If you can see your podiatry marketing provider, you know, marketing provider, like, in face to face, that that's fine as well. But I think, you know, understanding where they're coming from, understanding the challenges, you know, I really like to hear the challenges that the practices are facing. So that's kind of an open line of communication. You know, obviously, if you're in a huge age if you're working with some huge agency, like, they're probably you get like three different layers of bureaucracy between you and the person actually doing the work.

But I think, you know, that is, you know, is that available? Can you can you just, know, if you're if you have a bad review, is it gonna be taken care of that day or within a reasonable time frame? Right? You need to know that cadence of communication and reporting so your expectation are set to the right level. You know, if you're paying, you know, $500 or $300 a month for your marketing, right, you're probably like a kind of a cog in a really big wheel and expect that someone's gonna jump when you have a problem, you know, either it's not in the terms of services they agreed upon or they're just like, you know, it's some customer service person that you're one of like 60 people, like, you know, on their list and they already had their day booked today.

So you're gonna get bumped maybe, you know, till tomorrow or the next day or maybe the following week. So it's important to to know what you need from your marketing provider and understand what they're willing to give you as far as keeping you in the loop to make sure that like you like you said, Tyson, they're focusing on things and they have kind of a plan of attack that it kind of is in a lot in alignment with what you wanna do in your practice.

Yeah. And like we I said earlier on, whether you're talking about online or offline marketing, the same rules apply. When we did radio TV, it was exactly the same thing. We would get an agreement. We would have it in place, and you'd be watching your marketing unfolding.

And if something didn't happen the way that it should, I knew that I could get on the phone straight away, and I could bring them, and I would have a direct line straight to them, and they would take my call or get back to me within the hour to find out what the problem was. I think your online service provider is exactly the same. There should be a direct line that you can talk to them. If there's an issue or a problem, they should get back to you. And and I know time differences can sometimes be an obstacle depending on where you are in the world, but, jeez, it's not that hard.

Like, you and I are on opposite sides of the world. I know that from early hours of the morning, I can contact you right up until like, it's after midday now my time, and there you are at time is it there at your place? 10PM or something?

Yeah. We're just a little bit past 10PM right now.

Yeah. So if you've got a decent provider, he'll be there at 10PM for you ready to pick up that phone when you have a problem. Jim's going, don't No.

No. I'm I'm always I'm always here for you, Tyson. You know, like, after 10PM, like, you're person I talk to.

But I know my sales reps I had in different areas that if there was something that wasn't work something if there was a problem, they knew that I would I wouldn't always phone them after hours. But I'd send them a text message and go, you need to call me when you get out of bed in the morning at 06:30. Okay? Because this needs to get sorted out before you get to work at 08:30. And the guarantee, they would get it sorted out because they knew that I would be bouncing off the walls, so they didn't.

But I was also one of those very demanding clients.

Sounds like it.

It sounds like it. Now it wasn't that bad. It was just more I I think, like, service providers online. When you pay for something, you want something. You you're paying for a service.

And if you're not getting that service, then therefore, they're breaking the agreement. You you need to you can't just sit back and say nothing. You you can't just take it and go, oh, what? You know, I'll just leave. Well, then it'll happen to you at the next place.

You you better to build that relationship with someone and try and keep it long term, especially if they've proven to you that they're trustworthy. Because a trustworthy person, they they wanna know if you've got a problem.

No. A %. I think, you know, being kind of, you know, what kind of like for, you know, forthright and honest about kind of what's working well and not not working well is hugely important, especially kind of in a remote situation. Right? I I live in Montreal and all my I have client I have a client in Australia.

I have clients in The US and, you know, I can't physically be in their in their clinic. I can't go talk to the office manager. I don't know what the specific problems they are having in their practice that are those things are invisible visible to me until I take the time to ask, to have calls with my clients to say, hey, you know, how are things going in the clinic? How's the flow? Obviously, have analytics and data on my side.

I can kinda get a general sense of how things are going. But until you kind of engage in consistent communication, kind of build that trust up over time and have those, you know, sometimes tough honest discussions and and, you know, and kind of really talk to each other in ways to help move things forward. Because if if the client, you know, the podiatrist is kinda like, things are okay. Things are working pretty well.

Yeah. That

doesn't give me much much kind of wiggle room or ways to opt I can't optimize like, It's okay. Like, I need to know if there's some problems. Is there is there some objectives? And I and I try to tease that out, you know, I'm not, you know, I'm pretty good about asking questions about those types of things. But, you know, it is this, you know, it is a service relationship and, I think the people that are doing podiatry marketing the right way really wanna kind of build those win win relationships because me being podiatrist myself, I take a tremendous amount of pride in helping the people I work with, build the type of practice they wanna have and get more of the type of patients they wanna have in their clinic.

So, it is it is really important to have that forthright and kind of honest communication.

I think that is perfect, Jim. I think that is a perfect workplace to wrap up. Any anything final words you wanna say before we end?

No. I think we kinda wrapped it up there at the end. I think it definitely, you know, it takes a little bit of kind of time to kind of, you know, get get ready to say, okay, what do I need and how do I go find those things? So, you know, it's and it can be confusing. Right?

There's all this, you Google things, there's there's ads, there's people saying they're the best. It's it's not an easy way to kind of, you know, to kind of do it by yourself to try to figure out what is that next step. But, you know, hopefully some of the things we talked about today, whether it's getting references, asking good questions, you know, kind of test driving the relationship, doing some these different things, I think will kind of take out, you know, some of the mysteries so you can make sure that that the person you're working with is aligned with your best interest and and really kind of helping you kind of take your practice to the next level.

Okay. Well, I look forward to talk to you again next week, Jim.

Sounds like a plan, Tyson.

Okay. See you later. Bye.

Bye now. Thanks for listening to Podiatry Marketing with Tyson Franklin and Jim McDaniel. Subscribe and learn more at Podiatry Marketing. That's the website address, podiatry.marketing.