Generative Engine Optimization Explained: The Future of Patient Search

You're listening to podiatry marketing, conversations on building a successful podiatry practice with Tyson Franklin and Jim McDannald.

Hi. I'm Tyson Franklin, and welcome to this week's episode of podiatry marketing. With me, as usual, is big Jim Mac. How are you doing today, Big Jim?

Tyson, I'm doing great. Doing really well.

Yeah. Nailed the nailed the intro that time.

The seventh time's a charm. Right?

Oh, that's alright. When you get to eight attempts, that's when you you just give up. You turn everything off, you just come back another day. Just get down. I'm not even gonna worry about this.

So anyway, I am excited about today's topic. This is something new, something exciting, something that I think you mentioned that people probably going to hear a lot about in the not too distant future from marketers. So dive in and explain what we're talking about.

Yeah. So I think a lot of people that have listened to the podcast are familiar with SEO, right, which stands for search engine optimization that's trying to see, you know, on Google and other search engines, how can you kinda rank really well. But now we're all aware that these AI engines, whether it be ChatGPT, Claude, Anthropic, Google Gemini. There's also ways that people are trying to see whether there's kind of strategies or tactics to utilize the number of mentions that your clinic can be shown and people search for a clinic or searching for podiatrists here. So this terminology is called generative engine optimization or GEO or GEO for for short.

And we'll kinda get into, you know, it's kinda something that, like I said, we've we've talked about on previous podcasts, but now it has a name. So you're probably gonna see it being kinda floated out there more. And think it's just helpful for people to know what this stuff is and it could be a little confusing as well. I think we talked before the show that, you know, when we think of geo, we're thinking about geolocation and this has really not much to do with geolocation. So we'll dive into kind of explaining folks kind of what this is and get a better idea of how they can utilize this generative engine optimization or geo, you know, as it kind of becomes a fully fledged thing.

So you're saying they've been doing this for a while, but they've only just recently given it this name?

Yeah. People have been trying to find ways to optimize, you know, the number of mentions you can get on ChatGPT and people are trying to experiment and see, you know, what moves the needle there. But now it has a name. Right? Instead of being SEO, we have GEO or maybe GEO, this is what they call it.

So, you know, there's something things that has this kind of this category matures. We're gonna better understand, you know, how it pulls in the information, how maybe your people different people's clinics can, you know, rank a little bit higher when your patients in the local area searching for you and for the the services you provide.

Yeah. Because I have noticed when you're on Google and you do a certain search, they've got their AI, and you got Gemini, and you do. You have ChatGTP, and I use ChatGTP a lot to search different things, and it gives you links to websites. So you're saying this is now gonna be counting those as well so people know that they need to optimize those areas a little bit better.

Yeah. As Google maybe lose a bit of kind of market share and search to some of the, you know, whether it be ChatGPT or Google Gemini. You know, there's gonna be kind of a shift as far as, you know, people are gonna shift their marketing budgets or shift their kind of this way they spend their times, you know, optimizing their website or their, you know, different profiles online to make sure they can show up as much. If people, you know, if patients are gonna search more on ChatGPT in the future, you don't wanna be kinda caught, you know, flat footed not knowing what to do. So you're gonna see this from a lot of, you know, pitches from marketing agencies and just a lot of kind of tutorials online about this GEO.

Well, it makes perfect sense because I I still have haven't used Google more than anything else because I've always got the computer on in front of me. But my wife will use chat GTP for nearly every search that she does now. So you can picture advertising dollars. If companies are like, wow. The people that we we want to attract are using ChatGTP more or or another AI system, Google is gonna notice it.

They will notice the downturn in their number of searches, and therefore, yeah, they won't be able to charge what they do.

Yeah. That's why they're obviously, Google's pretty deep into their Google Gemini because they're they're afraid of someone like ChatGPT or Anthropic or somebody else that had one of their competitors takes a bunch of search traffic away from them. So like we talked about previously, you know, Google search used to be completely organic, and that was the SEO. You're kind of, how do I rank well on the organic search? But just like in organic search led to paid search, maybe there's also gonna be this kind of paid version of stuff in the future, but this organic GEO or geo is kind of the first step.

Okay. So where should everybody start? What what should they be doing?

I think the first step is to kinda understand the words. You know, what does the GEO stand for so you can kinda grasp your mind around a little bit because it can be look. We talked about a bit confusing because I think when we heard that hear the term geo, our mind's gonna jump to, like, geolocation or GPS or something like that. But, really, like you talked about, geo stands for generative engine optimization. So, you know, these different, AI platforms, you know, whether it be text or images, they are kind of generative platforms.

So the generative, you know, engine makes sense. You know, when it comes to optimization and the acronym of GEO, it may be a little bit, like we talked about, a little bit confusing. But now if you wanna obviously, we have SEO where you're trying to rank for, you know, kind of organic rankings on Google. This geo is similar. You know?

How do you optimize, you know, AI tools to reference your clinic, the content you've written on your blogs and on your website? You really highlight your expertise in their answers, and that's the real the real goal of GEO is to try to showcase you and your clinic when people are searching in your local area for the different kind of care and services you provide. So I think of this as being kind of like the source of AI so it can remember who you are and that your clinic exists.

So when you're writing anything there, you've got to think differently about how you're actually gonna be found?

I think it's a little bit different, but I think it also just kind of, you know, we've talked about in the past is that you really need to talk in ways that patients are gonna be searching. And so I think there's a bit of a that kind of translates over to AI as well because people are I think in Google search, you're kind of getting more into keyword search. I don't think people ask questions quite as much. They're gonna ask, you know, maybe three words like podiatrist near me or, you know, like, Chicago podiatrist. But if you can they're probably gonna ask a few more words within you're gonna ask ChatGPT either through voice or through text.

You know, what is the who's the best podiatrist in the Chicago area or something. So it's it's similar way, but maybe by having pages on your website or content that you write, make sure it's in the kind of the voice of the patient. Think I it's really gonna be a helpful way to to be seen more often.

I think that's a you you hit the nail on the head then because when I search something on Google, it is three, four, five words. Max is what I'm searching for. When I'm searching on chat, I'm actually talking to chat. And I'll actually say, good morning, chat. How are you today?

And we'll start the conversation, and then I will dive in. Because I'm always concerned that I will take over one day, so I wanted to know that I'm polite.

So You're a very polite guy.

I'm always very polite to it to start with. And but then, yeah, it's more of a long form question. If it was a podiatrist, for example, I might be saying, look. I'm looking for a podiatrist in the Cairns area, maybe around the Irville suburb who specializes more in orthotics and has a bit of a sporting background. So that's the information I'm gonna ask, and then it will pump out that information.

That's a perfect example. I think why this matters for podiatrists is exactly like you said. You can get a little bit more specific if you're typing stuff into chat GPT. There you can kind of it's it's a little bit less focused on keywords, but, you know, who's the best bunion surgery near me surgeon near me? When you ask those questions directly into AI assistance, you have to have kind of, you know, content that's kind of tailored in that way.

These tools don't show, you know, just 10 blue links. Right? I think

Yeah.

The goal for a long time the the game has kind of changed in that way. I think podiatrists need to understand that with these different platforms. You're not gonna get, you know, 10 different options. So if you're in the top three, you're good. You know, we talked previously in a in a podcast about the kind of the the top portion of Google suggests or the kind of Google, you know, the top banner where it kinda gives you a summary of things.

This is in a similar way. Maybe if you had previously been number, you know, two or three or maybe number four or five on Google, maybe it only sources that information from the first answer. Right? So, you you know, in in a chat GPT response specifically, maybe it's just gonna source from one place. Maybe it's gonna be WebMD or the Mayo Clinic and maybe a a couple podiatrist clinic.

But, you know, being in the top 10 may be no longer be good enough or in the top three may not be good enough for you to actually get that traffic. Because, like, if it provides that answer there, you know, there there's not really a a strong motivation to click through or to look into sources, then click to that website if the answer is already put out there on ChatGPT.

Yeah. And we discussed that once before. When you you do a search and sometimes you get the answer, you don't look any further. You don't need to dig any further.

No. Absolutely. It's almost like your clinic can be kind of invisible on some of these platforms where you still, like let's say you had, you know, like, your your Michigan foot doctors. Right? And people type in, you know, podiatrist or foot doctor in Michigan.

And you would show up there because you maybe you have some of those keywords that are in in your name that was kind of a you you even see some businesses kind of, I would say, not highly recommended, but using the near me and their business name now just to, like, kind of game Google in a

way. Yeah.

This kinda, like, blows that completely up because now, you know, you're gonna be kind of invisible, and your clinic might be invisible because you don't have those 10 blue links. You know? You could lose local patients because they never see you like they previously saw you on Google.

Okay. So if we continue, so what what's the biggest difference between, like, GEO and, say, SEO?

Yeah. It's hard to say with with SEO, like we talked about a bit, it's really keyword driven, whether it be, you know, the the types of searches that people are doing. They're putting in two, three, maybe four words as these kind of keywords. And it kind of you dominating those keywords used to give you a great opportunity to kind of rank very highly. Also, one of the kind of key signals for Google is how many people are are backlinking or send you you know, linking back to your website, whether it be local directories, maybe it's podiatry directories or podiatry businesses, maybe some of the physios in your area are nice enough to link back to you and you link to them.

That no longer matters, when it comes to geo. And then you also have kind of, you know, the ranking order. You know, the first the first link is always gonna get the most amount of traffic, then kinda gets lower and lower as it goes down. And like we said, you know, how do you hide a a dead where's the best place to hide a dead body? It's on the

second page of Google results.

Exactly. So it's one of those things where the game is kinda changed when it comes to SEO. And then, you know, it comes to geo. It's really focused on, you know, clarity. Are you speaking in the tone of voice or the questions that pay people actually ants asking you questions about and providing helpful answers?

You know, is it do you have the authority? Meaning, like, are you you know, does your does your do you build trust on the website? Do other people, you know, look at you know, see your credentials? Can they crawl and see that you are the right match for them? And then also the structure.

You know, that's something that's people aren't totally sure about how AI determines, the kind of structure of a website that they like best, but that's something that we're kinda early kinda early stages of learning kinda how it parses and how it cites you. So those are the kind of the key differences between SEO and GEO.

It's complicated, but it's not. If if that made sense. Like, SEO, I think it's taken people years to actually understand what SEO is and all the ways that they can use it. I think it's interesting. Now just as everybody sort of understands SEO, it's starting to move aside so geo can take its place.

But are there any practical steps that clinics can actually take?

Yeah. Before we jump to that, I would just kinda give a kind of a real example here, and that would be that, you know, sometimes people would utilize what we call keyword stuffing a lot when it comes to SEO. So now if you wanna see, like, you're gonna be the orthotic person, it's like, how many different times can you mention orthotic in a blog article or on your orthotic page? Or, you know, maybe use a different variation of a keyword, maybe foot inserts or arch supports. How many different times can you work those things in so when Google crawls the page, it kinda tell like, Google says, oh, like, they're mentioning this a lot on the page, and they're based in Portland.

Right? So when, you know, when someone looks up orthotics in Portland, we should show this page. Maybe they had a video that, like, kept people engaged and watching the video for a while. So, you know, those are kind of signals that Google used in order to, like, you know, show, certain pages near the top of the list. But, you know, that may not no longer be the case.

You know? The AI assistants might have different signals of trust that they pull from. So you know? Or maybe it's well structured content in a certain way that explains the causes, the treatments, and your role and how you provide that type of care. They can maybe process that better than just looking for these keywords and when you're they're scanning your page.

So it's important to realize, like, that's kind of the the practical differences between SEO and and GEO.

Oh, here's a question. You mentioned where Google if you've had a video on your page, and Google would notice that people are watching that video for a certain period of time, that might be through YouTube. Are you saying now with AI, if you're putting a video up, ideally, having the transcript of the video in on that page as well would be helpful?

It could be. I'm not sure how well, you know, the AI bots or whatever they're doing is scrolling through and and kinda transcribing that already kind of for their ranking system. But Yeah. I think the more information you can have on the page, definitely the better both for SEO and maybe even for geo. So, like, for our podcast, for example, right, we always make sure we have the transcript uploaded so that, you know, if people are searching for certain terms, they wanna learn about different topics that they'll, you know, hopefully land on our page and listen to our podcast or watch the video of our podcast.

Yeah. It is surprising when even with videos. I posted a video on Facebook years ago, and within a a video that I uploaded that was forty minutes long, there's this one little segment that went for about thirty seconds, and in the background of that little segment that I used, it had some music playing. And I uploaded it within an hour. I was told that I had to take it down.

Disney I I had breached a copyright thing from Disney. And I thought, well, I'm not gonna take Disney on. But it was surprising how how a video within a video and it was the smallest part and light music in the back end, they were able to just pick that up. So it's incredible what they can do.

Yeah. These these tech corporations have incredible amounts of servers and tools and things that, you know, we're kind of sometimes we're kind of blind to until you you get that takedown request or you realize how strong kinda on page SEO is and you do a little bit of reading about that type of stuff, how important that stuff can be.

Mhmm. Okay. Now let's move on to the practical steps that clinics can take.

Absolutely. So the first step, we talked about it kind of previously a little bit, but I'm just going to reemphasize it here is that you really want to write for patients, not algorithms. You know, that's you or you're hiring a marketing agency. Don't You wanna do all this kind of keyword stuffing. You wanna make sure that you're talking in pain plain language.

You have plenty of frequently asked questions and answers on your page. You know, what causes heel pain? When should I see a podiatrist? Kinda giving real answers to these questions. So it's gonna help, you know, these generative engines or ChatGPT realize that you're providing helpful and, you know, a good information to potential patients.

Also, you wanna highlight your authority. There's some thought that geo is a little bit stronger when it comes to noticing that, you know, what your degree is, your residency, making sure that you have kind of if you've written papers or if you've talked to conferences, having that in your bio could maybe potentially, like, you know, help you rank better. It's pretty common in the academic sector to have a PDF with kind of all your all your speaking gigs, all your papers, all that kind of stuff, you know, having a professional resume, you know, maybe a link to it on a PDF. You don't have to put it fully on the page, but a lot of those, you know, whether it be Chudge ChudgeGPT, those things can scan those pages potentially and read, you know, your background so they can kind of maybe rank you a little bit better when it comes to your credentials and expertise. Maybe also mentioning your community involvement in your bio.

You know, are you helping with diabetes foundation? Are you into, like, helping at marathons. Just kinda doing some things that can separate you from other podiatrists can be a helpful thing.

That's a great idea about expanding on your bio as a PDF and then having a link on there that people can go through. Because sometimes I've seen people's bios on their website and it just drags on and there's so much dribble there that for the average person is probably not important. But for certain people, they go, oh, no. I want as much information as possible because they might want you for a speaking gig or for some other reason. But then they they can then click on that, and you're gonna put as much information there as you want and really stack it with your experience.

But then, you know, the AI programs are also gonna be looking at that and understanding and learning a little a lot more about you.

No. Absolutely. I think patients will wanna glance just to make sure you're you know, see a little bit about you, but they don't need to know where you did that fellowship at or where you gave a conference talk. It's it's a great way just to have a link on there and to build additional trust for either the the, you know, the the the bots or the engines that wanna know it or the occasional patient that wants to build trust. Or like you said, maybe a speaking venue or someone wants to see that, you know, kinda build trust in who you are by utilizing that.

Yeah. I'm gonna I'm gonna use that even on my own website, though. I'm going to expand or do a PDF and attach it somewhere else so I can go through it. Because I found even with my own by you're writing stuff, you know, you're going, oh, it's just starting to get a bit wanky. The end would you wanna talk enough about yourself and not too much, but it's good to be able to have an area to put that.

No. It's a good way to, like like I said, it kinda just you can have that general summary of who you are, but you don't have to, like, you know, put it out there for everybody. But if someone's to click a link to see more, you have that available. And like you said, this is something you can utilize as a PDF and just keep it updated every time you do a workshop or a conference speaking gig.

Okay. What's next?

So next, I would say, is like the structured content. We talked about this a little bit. But, you know, this is basic SEO that I think will translate over potentially to geo is that, you know, utilizing the right headings. So, you know, when you're you know, there's there's kind of the what we see when we look at a web page, but then there's also the kind of, like, the behind the scenes, the kind of the technical SEO or GEO. So utilizing the right headings, utilizing bullet points, you know, creating summaries that these kind of large language models can easily digest and and kinda like that shows who you are.

So utilizing those things can be really helpful. And then, you know, I think we talked about previously is that if things shift, you know, I I still find that Google reviews is the most important place that you should be really soliciting and kinda getting your reviews from. But, you know, this becomes more popular. You know, if you have a competitor for for Google if you're a Google competitor, you're probably you don't really care about the Google reviews or you can't really, you know, you don't really care about that stuff as much. But if someone has Yelp reviews or health grades or other websites that you can kind of, you know, show that that shows that you are, you know, a good physician, people have positive reviews on you on these other sites, it can be a really helpful thing that they can use as a resource, to pull from that these AI engines might reference, and they're they're not gonna wanna reference the Google reviews.

Yeah.

And maybe they'll reference Healthgrades or Yelp or something like that.

And and the other part, we've talked about reviews a few times. It was a business I was going to use the other day, a service business, and Prodiotry is a service business. Zero reviews. It put me off. It really put me off because I know that business had been there for a little while, not not no more than, say, nine months, but not one review.

And I went, yeah. That I don't like that.

When I look at Airbnbs or, like, hotels and something that there's like, there there's either zero or there's, like, one or two kind of, like, lukewarm ones. I feel maybe they let their friends or relatives stay there, they got two reviews from them. And, you know, this is just their first name. Right? Like, Mark s thinks this is a great place, but maybe it's, you know, a little bit concerned if it has a 100 or 200 and it's all five stars and people love it.

I'm like, okay. It feel it feels safer and I can trust this this, you know, the these reviews.

Okay. What's next?

Last but not least is the, you know, the risk of ignoring GEO. I think this is still a new a newer kind of realm. Obviously, ChatJapanese has been around for a couple of years. It's maturing. These other AI engines are also maturing.

So it's a good time for people that don't know about ChatGPT or know about GEO to spend a little bit of time. You know? Obviously, we've kind of given a general introduction, on the podcast today, but there's definitely different resources where you can dig in to understand more about what it is. You just don't want to get caught kind of blindsided by if this change does happen over the next five to ten years. Right?

Oh, yeah. Google result results and Google Search and SEO is slowly eaten away by geo. You're gonna feel kind of silly if you're spending, know, 90% of your budget on something that, you know, only has, you know, maybe maybe Google is down to, like, 30% or something. Right? So you wanna make sure that you're making good financial decisions with your marketing budget.

So, you know, if patients, these AI assistants, they they can't see you, they're gonna recommend other clinics. So even if you have the best website, you know, you have to make sure that it's being built, for this GEO along with SEO. Like, we're talking about it's not replacing SEO yet. It's kinda layering on top of it. So, you know, early adopters that stand out on AI answers are gonna become the default way where, you know, patients will search, and and they'll they'll be they'll get those patients to come in the door.

So, you know, the quest question really isn't, you know, should I do this? I think it's more about, you know, how soon will my competitors start and what should I start learning about this to make sure that I'm pretty putting myself and my clinic at the best possible opportunity to kind of take advantage of this as this this kind of sector grows.

Do you think AI, like you said, the people who get in there start using it like anything else, the earlier they get in, use it, apply it, learn from it, get better at it, the more of an advantage I'll have over somebody who just I'll wait. I'll wait. I'll just see what happens. And then wait two or three years, and they could really be missing out.

Yeah. I think there's a there's a whole lot of innovation going on in this area here, right, from AI, you know, these kind of AI opportunities to, like, utilize in marketing, but also have, know, the the level of kind of voice to text translation with AI assistant is pretty phenomenal these days. It's almost to the point where I have a program right now where I can almost, like, whisper into the microphone, like, very quietly, and it gets it, I would say, 99.9% of the time exactly correct. So I think the people that are utilizing and kind of experimenting with these different AI technologies, you know, are gonna just become more efficient. At the very least, you're gonna become more efficient, right, with what you're doing, more efficient ad spend, more efficient in your practice, saving time instead of, you know, these these physicians who are, you know, charting at home on the weekends or have, you know, five days of charts stacked up and they're stressed out.

I think there's a huge opportunity for a lot of people to improve kind of the way that they're utilizing their time. And by being less stressed out, they're gonna be able to provide better care for patients that come to the clinic.

It's oh, jeez. It's come a long way since the yellow pages.

Absolutely.

But it but even though okay. Joke about the yellow pages. Some things even though it's changed a lot since then, the concepts are still the same. Like, I'm sure even the Yellow Pages first came out, and I can't remember that, I'm not that old, but when it first came out, I'm sure it was the same thing. The early adopters that understood how it worked, there were rules around the yellow pages about the size of ads and timing and other placements and in different areas of the book.

To me, the same sort of concept. It's get in and learn this stuff.

Yeah. Get in and learn it. You know, utilize it in some different aspects of your life. It doesn't have to all be podiatry related initially. Just see how the ways it can make things better.

Like I talked about, I found a lot of help when it comes to transcription, saving me time. I'm not having to type out, you know, long long searches or or long long reply emails. I'm making them personalized with the same time saving a lot of time. I'd say to really to sum it up, you know, GEO is about making your clinic, shows up in AI generated, answers, not just on Google. Patients are already using these tools to find, podiatrists in your local area probably.

The clinics that adapt by, you know, creating clear, trustworthy, and structured content on the websites are gonna be the ones that are are remembered by these AI platforms and recommended. So it's really a new era. You know, being invisible, to AI could really be detrimental to your business, in the future. So spend some time learning about these different tools and how they could benefit your practice because this is the way things are going. Like I said, it's kinda right now, it's kind of a layer on top of SEO.

It's not necessarily taking a whole lot away from it currently, but, you know so now is a great time to kinda get in there, understand how it works so it can be a positive, you know, growth growth area for your clinic.

Jeez. We're a cutting edge podcast, I'll tell you right now. I listen to a lot of podcasts. I haven't heard anybody else talking about this particular subject yet. And I think in twelve months I remember when we did the first episode on ChatGTP.

Was it two years ago? Maybe? Yeah.

A couple of years ago.

There was a little bit of chatter about it, but there wasn't a lot. We did that episode. It was one of the most popular episodes. And now everybody talks about chat GDP or another version of it. I reckon this topic in twelve months' time, we will probably touch I reckon in six months, we'll probably be touching on the subject again and expanding upon it.

And what I like is the podiatrists who are listening to this now, you've just been given a head start on everybody else that doesn't listen to this podcast. But we still want you to tell all your podiatry friends to listen.

Yeah. Don't keep it a secret. Don't keep it a secret. Good word.

Yeah. Just a nice podiatrist. The monger ones, let them figure out later. So anything else to before we wrap up?

No. I think we're all good there, Tyson.

Okay. Big Jim, I look forward to talking again next week.

Sounds good.

Okay. See you.

Bye. Thanks for listening to Podiatry Marketing with Tyson Franklin and Jim Mcdonald. Subscribe and learn more at podiatrymarketing. That's the website address, podiatry.marketing.